Help! Keyboardist is playing over me!

[bassicmike]

I'm siding with direct approach.

"Fred, you gotta lay off the left hand. I have nowhere to play"

If that fails, drop an SVT on his hand.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm new to playing bass in a band, both. And maybe it was ok before...gave me added confidence to have our keyboardist play a bass line at the same time. But it's gotten f'ing annoying. Band leader came in to help me. Told Fred that he could play bass during his songs, but not during our originals. Then Fred called me to ask to talk to find an arrangment that works "for both of us". As far as I'm concerned, the only arrangement that's going to work is for him to stop playing his poopy, monotonous, uncreative, squelching, boring-a$$ bass lines or play them an octave higher so I can even hear myself think. I'm sorry. I'm so frustrated. He's 80 years old and has been playing forever! How does he not know this is rude and how come little ol' me has to explain it to him?! Waaahhh! Thanks, I needed to whine. Anyhoo, please give me 3 or 5 bullet points I can tell him, and cc band leader on. Imma tell him my bros on this forum explained it to me so I don't come across as a B****. Even though I am definitely feeling like one. God I'm pissed! I never get pissed LOL

Make up a Ray Manzarek award for him; present it, and when he asks what it is, tell him it's an award for playing over all the bass parts.

 

[Shenaniflan]

The same thing happened to me. The guitarist/singer had a friend who played organ and who would always be welcomed to sit in with us, usually for the entire night. He wasn't bad. Though he was a doctor, he had played in bands up through his college years. But he had a heavy left hand. I confronted him during a break, talking loudly so as to be heard above a thunderous jukebox - he thought I was yelling at him and told others he'd never been so insulted in all his life. I just wanted him to hear me - bad situation. A bassist filling in for me on a later night took a better approach. In response to complete keyboard bass lines throughout a song, he just put his bass down and went to sit in the audience. I wish I'd done that rather than making an enemy.

That's kind of what I did at last rehearsal. I stopped playing and raised my hand up in frustration and no one could hear the difference. so sad

 

[markjazzbassist]

this is a common one with classically trained keyboard players who are used to playing by themselves a lot or have throughout their life/career.

i tell them, left hand play chords, right hand play licks/noodle/tasty stuff. i try to encourage them that it's more fun that way they can let loose up top with that right hand now.

but i agree, it is a constant battle with keys players this.

 

[Jeff K]

Back in the '90s 5 of us formed a band for fun to relieve stress from our day jobs. Two guitars, bass, drums, and keys. One night at practice, the keyboard was walking all over my bass lines. So I stopped mid-song, took off my bass, muted my amp and went over and sat down. Everybody stopped playing and somebody said, "Jeff, why'd you stop playing?!" I shrugged and said, "Well, 'Felix' is playing my bassline, so I figured you don't need two of us playing it." I don't remember it happening after that.

 

[Axtman]

 

[Altitude]

If the keys are playing a bass line, make up your own. Get creative. If anyone objects, explain there is no need for the bass and keys to play identical parts.

That’s exactly the problem though. If two musicians are playing notes in the bass register that are not the same or at least very deliberately harmonic, the result is muddy crap.

I’d go the other direction, tell the keyboardist that if you and he are both playing bass notes, they need to be meticulously planned, written, and rehearsed to ensure you’re doing that well.

But it’s probably an unbreakable habit at this point.

 

[Cal03]

I’d go the other direction, tell the keyboardist that if you and he are both playing bass notes, they need to be meticulously planned, written, and rehearsed to ensure you’re doing that well.

This especially. It's not that multiple instruments playing the bass line can't work as a concept, but it needs to be carefully prepared to work. Large ensembles like symphony orchestras and marching bands have multiple instruments holding down the low end, but they manage to not devolve into mush because the parts are written out, orchestrated properly, and rehearsed. Even then it takes a lot of preparation to get it right, and sometimes it still sounds like mush!

Also it just won't work for all settings, I can't imagine bass + heavy LH keyboard plodding sounding appropriate for reggae and the like.

 

[MynameisMe]

Mr. Heavy Fingers will NEVER CHANGE. You're just some dumb kid, don't ya know.
I would just stop playing and see if anyone noticed.
Step 2: Cya!

 

[bdplaid]

HE was out of tune?

Absolutely. I checked a rechecked myself. You know, digital pianos have been known to drift out over time...

Don't make this about the bass player.

 

[Chippitt]

Fire the drummer

 

[51PRI]

Absolutely. I checked a rechecked myself. You know, digital pianos have been known to drift out over time...

Don't make this about the bass player.

Uh, sorry, I guess?...I've never heard of digital keyboards drifting out of tune. I know that some of them can be tuned in deep editing mode.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Then I offered them the choice of getting out of my area or I was going to live in their area. It was like fighting fire with a thermonuclear warhead.

This tactic came to an end when a dog I used to have took a big runny crap on my pedal board. It got down into the faders. No way I was going to clean it up. I gave it away in the classifieds on here, as is.

Sounds like the dog was on the keyboard players side, and let you know this was no pi$$ing contest.


So, did you disclose the added funk / Fido mojo to the recipient of your generous giveaway?

 

[bdplaid]

Uh, sorry, I guess?...I've never heard of digital keyboards drifting out of tune. I know that some of them can be tuned in deep editing mode.

The bass is definitely the first place to look, but no, it was him. I made sure of it. Drove me nuts. It was only a few cents out of tune, but enough to make the low end beat like crazy.

 

[ebo]

My band ditched a guitarist because he always walked all over the other one and made it sound all muddy. We decided to add a keyboardist. (Uh oh..) we auditioned 4 KB players. One, as he was setting up, looked straight at me and said ,”by the way, I know not to play with my left hand” and did the arm behind his back gesture. Hired!! He turned out to be the best player, the nicest guy, and it’s been a dream ever since. He does suggest notes or lines he hears that I’m not doing, he has a great ear. I sometimes listen, gotta keep him happy and in his lane. Moral is, they DO EXIST!

 

[Wood and Wire]

View attachment 5189669

Capone aside, I'd be real worried for completely different reasons, if some sleazy guy in a raincoat said that to me.

 

[Hasty]

The bass is definitely the first place to look, but no, it was him. I made sure of it. Drove me nuts. It was only a few cents out of tune, but enough to make the low end beat like crazy.

It could be the digital keyboard... but it could also be the intonation of your fretted instrument, which is more likely. Not blaming the bass player at all... just mentioning something worth considering so you don't develop compounded rage against the piano player. I think about this sort of thing all the time, especially with some notes on the low B string on my electric bass. Fortunately, I play with very few that are ever in the range of that string.

 

[Kael]

So, did you disclose the added funk / Fido mojo to the recipient of your generous giveaway?

Yep. I advertised it as is and fully described the sucker. I like to think they cleaned it up and it worked ok, but I don't know if I ever got updated on it. This had to have been a dozen years ago at least. Probably more like 15.

 

[Wood and Wire]

These two examples popped into me head, just to show it can be done in a variety of ways :


Main Riff = Bass & Piano in unison.

A / B motifs (Main Riff) = Bass plays high melody. Piano plays the low notes.

Chorus = Bass plays root notes. Piano in unison with added 5th.

Post-chorus bridge = Bass plays harmonics. Piano plays low root notes & two note melody.




Alternatively :


Bass tone = dark & muted

Piano tone = rich & sustained

Verse = Piano plays long sustained chords, and leaves plenty of space for the busier, more staccato Bass.

Chorus = more of the same, but with the Piano opening up more with the right hand harmonizing.

Bridge = Bass plays counter-melody.

Solo = pretty much in unison, but the contrasting tones / decay rates keep the instruments completely distinct from one another.

 

[ChrisB2]

That's kind of what I did at last rehearsal. I stopped playing and raised my hand up in frustration and no one could hear the difference. so sad

That is sad, that apparently your band doesn't appreciate your contribution.

I have no suggestions to add to what has already been presented, but good luck whatever you do.