Help Me Build an (eventually ultimate) Bass DI Recording Rig!

[Secret Lan]

Hi everyone, hope all is well!!

I want to set up a DI recording rig for bass guitar in an electronic/post-rock/doom project I'm working on. It's basically half electronic and half guitars so I use all kinds of tones and in general we lean pretty heavily into dirty, psychedelic analog sounds with a lot of fuzz, overdriven vintage tube amps and the like but also tighter pseudo-djenty progressive parts, cleaner ambient sections etc. So basically versatility, at least down the road, is important but being able to handle heavier distortion sounds is no 1. I also prefer analog gear, I've had a few bad experiences with digital stuff.

In terms of a general philosophy, I want to get something that will either get "top notch" bass tones on its own right away or integrate into a more expansive rig somewhere down the line and be on the same level quality-wise as something like a Universal Audio Ox for guitar. Looking to spend around $500 at the moment and willing to invest more in the future. The reddi, for example, is definitely on my radar as something that would be right up my alley as a final pre/gain stage to run this bass rig through to give it that final touch of tube magic, but I feel like I need to get the more "big picture" tone shaping taken care of first. At the moment I basically have access to a handful of guitar pedals, fuzzes and overdrives but nothing really bass-centric.

Here are the three choices I'm currently considering:

1.) Humboldt Electronics Simplifier Bass Station
I actually happen to love the SVT sound and this thing seems pretty compelling. I think it sounds great and has an interesting parallel direct out that can be low passed so you can process a low and high signal separately. I think it works especially well as the foundation of an eventually more expansive recording rig, essentially replacing the amp/cab and being expanded with pedals etc. My main concern is that it won't quite have the versatility I'd be looking for on its' own, and eventually I would end up having to buy #2 anyway...

2.) Darkglass Microtubes X Ultra
I also really like the darkglass sound and could see myself eventually building a board with a few of the darkglass ultra series pedals running straight into the interface with the built in cab-sim IRs. X Ultra has a lot to offer and might just be the whole rig I mentioned in #1 in one pedal, I'm just a little apprehensive because they seem more like a "distortion pedal you can use as a DI" than something really intended as a recording device. People with experience using them for recording seem to be few and far between...

3.) SansAmp VT Bass DI
...on the other hand, seems to be the definintion of tried and true. Tons of people online swear by them and they're really not all that different functionally from the Simplifier, but Simplifier is much newer and I feel like is probably just worth the extra $200... but I have no access to any of this stuff right now, so no way to A/B anything.

Anyone out there have experience with any of this gear, or maybe have gone through this themselves and can help me out? I'm really just looking for someone else to weigh in with an opinion because I'm having a lot of trouble deciding.

Thanks a ton everyone!!

 

[pfschim]

I can comment on the Tech21 VT Deluxe (basically the same as the DI version with a few more options). The VT works great and will give you that B15/SVT type sound for the foundation of your recorded tone.

Keep in mind that while you can record with outboard FX, one school of thought is to record as clear and clean as you can then apply FX as desired. So, even though you say your tone goals lean heavily towards dirt/fuzz, you might want to consider applying those flavors after the bassic track is recorded. That way you can play around with different FX mixes ... otherwise, if you track with distortion, you can't take it away or modify it very much.

of course, there are all kinds of ways to record these days and this is not the only approach as I'm sure others will chime in on.

good luck.

 

[Secret Lan]

Thanks PF! Recording direct then applying amp sims etc after has ocurred to me, I just hate being reliant on a computer to be able to jam - I am planning on sending it straight into an old powered bass cabinet I use when not recording and would rather not need to power up a computer to get the distortion tones.

Anyone play heavier styles of music and run fuzz pedals into the front of a Sansamp VT? I find it hard to believe it would handle being pushed by fuzz pedals the same way a real tube amp would...

 

[pfschim]

ah, I thought you were just focused on recording, not live playing/jamming too.

The VT pedal has a pretty well designed Drive control that goes from just a bit of hair to outright germanium fuzz pedal crunch. Not sure if its the flavor you want, but its part of all the VT pedals. I'm sure there are probably some YT videos out there of the various flavors of drive on the VT.

I'm not a dirt/distortion player generally, so others will have to chime in on the other pedals you mentioned in your OP.

 

[hbarcat]

For recording bass in my home studio I use a Sansamp BDDI into a REDDI and then into my board. The combination of the two is magic to my ears.

 

[Secret Lan]

Thanks again PF, I've used tons of digital stuff in the past and have been very impressed with the tones in the more recent modellers etc. but I just prefer the more immediate feel of analog. I've found that putting a computer between myself and music making just leads to me playing less, so I try to have a solid analog setup that I can just turn on and play then I only need to involve the computer when it's time to record.

I am beginning to think that the VT is the way to go - people everywhere seem to think it's great and it's cheaper/more available than the other two so maybe it's at least a good place to start. My bandmate does all of the production/DAW stuff and I usually just try to provide him with quality core tones to work with... so I was thinking the microtubes X could give him that bi-amped sound right from the get-go, but I could also just record the parallel out and send him both to work with... more work on his end but then he also has more options, and my understanding is that this is pretty standard bass recording technique anyway.

And thanks for your input Barcat, that is kind of where I see this eventually heading - in my experience it's hard to get good fuzz sounds without driving actual tubes/transformers (on guitar, at least) so I could see either double tracking a cleanish amp sound then a fuzz, both into the reddi, or cleanish amp sound blended with the parallel driving a fuzz into the reddi... or something like that.

Anyone ever tried running a fuzz straight into a reddi before? I feel like it would probably sound pretty good, but that's based on my experience with vintage guitar amps...

 

[Krisfield]

This is my Ampless/DI pedalboard. The VT Bass stacks really well with other dirt pedals.

 

[Secret Lan]

Thanks Correlli, so you're basically boosting the VT? What style of music do you cover with that board?

 

[Krisfield]

I use a P Bass w/ Model P pickups which are fairly hot, and with the boost pedal they drive the VT a bit harder. The combination produces a lot of sustain. I guess my tone is Ampeg-ish, and my style is rock/funk/RnB.

 

[Secret Lan]

Nice, thanks!

I think I've basically eliminated the Darkglass, at least for now because it seems like more of a distortion box and what I'm really looking for is an amp simulator. I also just realized that I could use the simplifier to low-pass the parallel signal, put a comp in the low-pass loop and a fuzz in the pre-amp loop and get similar results with way more flexibility. Seems like the best of both worlds, giving me bi-amp possibilities with either outboard analog gear or a pre/parallel signal for my colleague to work with digitally, as well as allowing me to eventually build a more expansive rig. Really just a question of whether it is worth an additional $200 investment over the VT, or if in the end I'm going to end up with a whole rig producing a tone that I could have gotten out of just the single Darkglass pedal.

Anyone have experience with the Simplifier? Ideally in comparison to a VT? Any Microtubes X users out there want to chime in?

 

[Secret Lan]

Well guys, I took the plunge and ordered the simplifier - after listening to demos I really do think it sounded better than the VT (albeit without an actual A/B comparison) and it was one of those things where I just had a feeling about it, like it was the perfect piece of kit made for the exact application I'm looking for. I'll let you know how it goes lol.

 

[pfschim]

ha, well good luck with the new box, hope it works as you expect it to.

 

[Geri O]

I would have suggested a REDDI Tube DI, but it's a little more than you mentioned wanting to spend (New. I've bought two, a new one for $760 and a used one for $550), plus I'm late to the party, you've already bought.

I never leave home without the REDDI, although lately, the line out of the WD800 more than suffices on small-ish gigs. Very simple, just a gain control, but it makes basses sound absolutely great, live or recorded.

Good luck, looking forward to hearing about your experience with the Simplifier.

 

[Lowbrow]

My DI recording rig - I sometimes stick a Tech 21 Q Strip between the Para Driver and the interface, mainly for the HPF.
Maybe a little complicated for your specs, but it gets me where I want to be.
OD comes from the blended BB Preamp; tone-shaping and amp vibe from the VT/Para Driver combo.

 

[Secret Lan]

I would have suggested a REDDI Tube DI, but it's a little more than you mentioned wanting to spend (New. I've bought two, a new one for $760 and a used one for $550), plus I'm late to the party, you've already bought.

I never leave home without the REDDI, although lately, the line out of the WD800 more than suffices on small-ish gigs. Very simple, just a gain control, but it makes basses sound absolutely great, live or recorded.

Good luck, looking forward to hearing about your experience with the Simplifier.

Thanks!!

I probably will get a reddi eventually but I figured I should start with something that has a little more tone shaping. I am thinking, in theory, that the final product will look something like a boost into the simplifier, comp on the low-pass parallel signal, a couple fuzz/OD/distortions in the preamp loop then both signals into a pair of reddis then the interface. That's a couple grand down the road though, hence the *eventually* ultimate part lol.

 

[Secret Lan]

My DI recording rig - I sometimes stick a Tech 21 Q Strip between the Para Driver and the interface, mainly for the HPF.
Maybe a little complicated for your specs, but it gets me where I want to be.
OD comes from the blended BB Preamp; tone-shaping and amp vibe from the VT/Para Driver combo.

View attachment 3871952

Sweet rig, I'm more or less thinking something similar eventually - not too complicated at all!

 

[Lowbrow]

Sweet rig, I'm more or less thinking something similar eventually - not too complicated at all!

I'd be interested to hear your impressions on the Simplifier - I've got a DSM OmniCabSim, and while its pretty cool and versatile it was perhaps redundant after the VT Bass. Word of advice for anyone reading this with regard to external pedal cab sim: don't bother with the DigiTech Cab Dryver

 

[Secret Lan]

I'd be interested to hear your impressions on the Simplifier - I've got a DSM OmniCabSim, and while its pretty cool and versatile it was perhaps redundant after the VT Bass. Word of advice for anyone reading this with regard to external pedal cab sim: don't bother with the DigiTech Cab Dryver

Hahaha good to know

I don't have much to compare it to but I will let you guys know how it goes once it comes in!

 

[bbh]

I usually go mackie onyx board to Avalon compressor. That’s all. The Avalon has a great tone that can’t be duplicated.

 

[Secret Lan]

Hi everyone, just a quick update:

First of all, the simplifier sounds amazing and I've been having a lot of fun just messing with the SVT preamp and a compressor in the parallel loop. I'm currently using the gain cranked on the pre (on the low-gain input setting, but there's generally not a lot of gain on tap - can't wait to try boosting it) with a slight cut to bass, boost to mids, flat treble and blending with the parallel signal using the 500hz low-pass and a huper luminal compressor. Awesome sound, and the preamp specifically really does deliver a solid SVT sound - not farty at all on high gain settings like I found the VTDI to be, but that's probably more because of the low-pass blend. The cabsim also sounds great, with distinct, usable and, as far as I can tell being fairly experienced with 4x10 and 1x15 cabs, accurate/lifelike.

I am not liking the higher gain sounds I'm getting with dirt in the preamp loop though - it's post-pre so the fuzz, distortion etc. ends up driving straight into the cabsim then interface, which creates all kinds of noise, level issues and just straight up bad tone. I emailed DSM about a potential mod I was thinking of to move the loop placement, but they actually suggested I split the signal BEFORE the simplifier then basically use the parallel return as a parallel in because the filtering is post-loop anyway. So I have a splitter on the way and am pretty confident the dirt tones will improve once they have a nice preamp to hit before going to the interface.

Here is the final "blueprint" for what I think I'll eventually be rocking, stuff in brackets has not been purchased yet:

Active Warwick Double $$ - Polytune mini 3 w/ buffer - (y cable) - L side into Hyper Luminal Compressor - Simplifier parallel return w/ switchable low pass filter - R into (Harmonic Booster) - (Vintage MicroTubes) - (Alpha Omicron) - Simplifer SVT Pre Amp - (REDDI, eventually x2 so I can record both signals and blend in post) - interface

Thanks again for all the help everyone, maybe you'll see me with pics of a complete rig this time next year