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help required chosing a fEARful design

#22
scottfeldstein said:
Yours is the rig I want. 15/6 and a 15 sub. Got you covered from rehearsal volume to outdoor festival.

if only I had the money right now.
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Yes, that was My thinking upon first doing a 15/6. As in the past (prior to building the 15/6), at a lot of the smaller indoor venues where We played, I had a bit more rig than I needed, while when playing outdoors I had just enough.
FWIW- The show We played Saturday, was an outdoor stage and the 15/6 was plenty for that particular occasion. I was able to hear My rig clearly on stage, without having to crank the volume (which is one of the cool things I've noticed about these cabs, You dont have to be silly loud to be heard and have a good "balanced" sound.). Granted, that I wasn't having to "carry the house" with My rig, but it still had more on tap if I would've needed it.
However, as I said in a previous post the 15-sub is still gonna happen, "Just in case ;)".
 
#23
The group I'm in now plays very few live shows. Even when our self produced album is out, we'll probably just do a few local ones. But every now and then we get a shot at a really cool show, opening for This Person or That Person. So when I find myself in front of 700 people at the Varsity I want to have a rig that'll be legit. With that 15/6 15/sub stack I'd probably have the headliner bass player asking me if he can try it.
 
#24
scottfeldstein said:
The group I'm in now plays very few live shows. Even when our self produced album is out, we'll probably just do a few local ones. But every now and then we get a shot at a really cool show, opening for This Person or That Person. So when I find myself in front of 700 people at the Varsity I want to have a rig that'll be legit. With that 15/6 15/sub stack I'd probably have the headliner bass player asking me if he can try it.
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Yes, this would mirror My thoughts as well and I would think, that the 15/6, 15 Sub setup would probably be all that You'd ever need. I can totally dig the appeal of modularity. It gives You the option of a medium sized rig, for the times when that's all it takes to do the job, as well as the option to add another cab when You really wanna get some serious sound out there.
There are some folk, in which I can agree with for the most part, that would rather move one bigger cab than two smaller ones. Since I have owned both. I can see the utility of a "one trip, one move" cab. Whereas, I can also see the "modular" big rig a suitable option for some players.
All that said, My thoughts were initially, that if 80% of My gigs justified the need for the bigger one move cab, I would've went that direction without a doubt. However, at this point, I'm feeling pretty content and feel that adding the 15 Sub to My 15/6 will get Me where I need to be on most any gig, that I will ever play.
 
#25
rpsands said:
I would suggest a 12/6 cube and a 15/6 if you're building yourself. Start with the 12/6 cube. It's cheap and will get you a feel for the design. If you want more volume build a 15/6 or another 12/6 cube depending on how much more volume :)
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+1

Except that since the OP is in a loud band, I'd start with a 15/6 then add a 12/6.

If you have enough room in your vehicle I'd build the 1212/6. If you build it out of light wood you could probably get in in the low 50LB range. I used Italian Poplar, also known as Eurolite, and I'm very happy with it.

BTW, there is a metric cutlist on the greenboy forum.
 
#27
scottfeldstein said:
Think it's ok to mismatch 'em? :hiding:
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Yes infact it is, that is part of the design. The woofers in the 15/6 and 12/6 are crossed over at the same point. So as long as you stay with in the power limitations of the 3012LF, around 500 watts, you will be just fine. Like wise with the mid drivers, the cross over padding can be such that the output matches there as well. If you check out the footprint and driver orientation of the 12/6 cube and the 15/6, you will see the baffles were arranged such that the 12/6 flipped over, and set on top of the 15/6, allows for the mid drivers and tweeters to line up vertically.
 
#29
12126, built one, love it. I guess I'm in the minority but i like to get my cab loaded in in one trip. My volvo estate spoils me for space. I just stick it on the folding dolly, it's only 70lbs anyway. 1X12 in each hand? Not for me even if they're light.
 
#30
wounded horse said:
12126, built one, love it. I guess I'm in the minority but i like to get my cab loaded in in one trip. My volvo estate spoils me for space. I just stick it on the folding dolly, it's only 70lbs anyway. 1X12 in each hand? Not for me even if they're light.
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Im with you on the single cab front. I went with the '66, and I have been hounding greenboy for a f212 release.
 
#31
I think I put this in a other fearful thread, so here it goes over here, FWIW.


When you just start adding up driver sensitivity, power input, etc., the 15/6 could run as "loud" as a 410, at least in the bandwidth where the 410 is effective If you've got a big amp with enough juice at 8ohms to push it that far. Still, thermal compression will set in at some point and take away that last 2-3db. Also something to be said for letting your gear cruise along in it's comfort zone and not pushing it to it's limits all the time, the fearful isn't designed to get cone cry or other "character" from doing that, rather get loud and stay clean.

The 1212/6 might be a better 410 substitute in that case. It'll end up being capable of more output than most any 410, consider that headroom, or the ability to get louder with a smaller amp.

Also something to be said for the sounding louder, even though some spl measurements might not show it. The dispersion, extension and clarity of the mid will give more percieved volume, ie: the ability to hear yourself easier without cranking as loud. Also the woofers extension that beats most other cabs below 80hz. The bottom is going to sound deeper and a lot louder, simoly because most typical 410's don't have much, if any, appreciable output down there.

So, a couple things there adding to the percieved loudness, aside from just adding up watts and decibels.
 
#32
CL400Peavey said:
So as long as you stay with in the power limitations of the 3012LF, around 500 watts, you will be just fine.
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Phooey. I feed mine 750W each all the time. :cool:

(Of course not really... it gets much less on average, like any other bass speaker. But you know what I mean.)

I'll also repeat something from the other thread here. A dual 12 fEARful will eat a 4x10 for lunch and ask for more.
 
#36
It seems to be lost on everyone that OP has a 300W tube amp operating at 2/4 ohms, and another solid state amp for running effects through.

Perhaps OP can clarify his aims.

There is an option with the Traynor 300 to snip a wire and connect to a different trace for the power transformer to turn it into 4/8 ohm operation.
 
#37
Downunderwonder said:
It seems to be lost on everyone that OP has a 300W tube amp operating at 2/4 ohms, and another solid state amp for running effects through.

Perhaps OP can clarify his aims.

There is an option with the Traynor 300 to snip a wire and connect to a different trace for the power transformer to turn it into 4/8 ohm operation.
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No need to - the Traynor head can handle 8Ohm loads, too. It will put out a bit less power (275W afaik) but I have no issues with that. I usually drive a single 8Ohm cab with my Traynor head. I checked and double-checked in this forum and also the amp manual and it does not harm the amp!

My aims: I want smaller speakers without loosing too much power. You see, my ashdown 410 does fit into my car, but it is 36kg and bulky. I can never move it on my own (in fact I can but the only one who's happy about this is my physio-therapist). When I play wet-dry setup, I have to have a second speaker, also. Both speakers are totally overkill for venues we play normally because the bars are small (or we have PA support). So I am looking for something smaller and more transparent in sound; I often heard the fEARfuls are very very neutreal in sound and also very light. The thing is, I want to have backup when I need the power.

The 1212/6 option sounds nice - I am afraid it does not match my goal to eventually reduce my rig regarding the dimensions. But regarding sound/power, it would be my first choice!
The 15/6 is afaik of the same dimensions as the 1212/6, so the 1212/6 options is still my favorite.

I am thinking of building two 12/6 without tweeter. One for dry, one for wet. Thats nice, simple and looks good. The wet channel does not need any more power. Adding a 12 of 15 sub to the dry channel if more power is necessary seems to be the next best thing for me. Or a 1212/6 (dry) and a 12/6 wet? Or 2 12/6 (dry) and one 12/6 wet? It is like playing LEGO :-) I guess the 1212/6 and 2x 12/6 does not differ very much. Quite hard to imagine the output of these cabs. Someone mentioned 12/6 = common 210. I have on 210 (GK BLX) and its output is WEAK. But then again, its GKs budget stuff.

I have a lot of time to think and overthink this, because I currently have my knie fixed and cannot walk any further than bed-toilet-couch :-) You get impressingly lazy when you cannot walk. Thats why I am diving into this, because normally I have not that amout of "thinking time" for things like this.

Quite funny the fEARLful cabs do look smaller on all the fotos than they actually seem to be when I look at the schematics.
 
#38
The relativley low sensitivity of fearful cabs is a bit of a dirty secret. I hazard a guess this is what the 2x10 comment was about. The 12/6 will take a healthy 500W and smile whereas a 2x10 will die.

I wonder if you will have enough power to get a 12/6 loud enough. A 1212/6 might be what you need to get enough volume from 300W.

Something else, for some unnknown reason 3015LF are cheaper than 3012LF. It's not often you get more for less.
 
#39
Downunderwonder said:
The relativley low sensitivity of fearful cabs is a bit of a dirty secret.
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Low compared to what?

I think there needs to be some qualification to these types of statements. If you compare the fEARful designs to others that have similar low end extension, they are quite efficient. If you compare them to designs that have a narrower useful frequency band, they are less so. The point is, these designs sit right on the line of having your cake and eating it too. Its chocolate cake, and you may only like lemon, thats fine.
 
#40
CL400Peavey said:
Low compared to what?

I think there needs to be some qualification to these types of statements. If you compare the fEARful designs to others that have similar low end extension, they are quite efficient. If you compare them to designs that have a narrower useful frequency band, they are less so. The point is, these designs sit right on the line of having your cake and eating it too. Its chocolate cake, and you may only like lemon, thats fine.
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So you're saying that other designs might be "louder" but not in a way that's useful to many bass players?
 

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