help setting my graphic EQ for mid/high notes

[dmrogers]

Boosting lots of low bass (the far left couple of sliders) is stressful on speakers, so do this at a moderate volume.

Start with the EQ flat (all sliders in the middle), then move each one all the way down and all the way up, then back to the middle to hear what each band does to your tone. Do that with all of them, then go through again moving two sliders together as if they were one control, to see how it affects tone by adding and removing a wider "slice" of bandwidth.

Do that a few times, as well as trying various different shot-In-the-dark settings. Then close your eyes and just move stuff around once to get the best sound you can and once to get the worst sound you can. Only after the tone is set, open your eyes and take note of what it looks like.

It'll help train your ear and give you an idea of what sort of "sound shapes" you like and don't like. Can then use that information to help shape tones.

The above info is one of the best ways to learn to set your EQ. That and learning what frequencies you are actually controlling. I know that last sentence might sound like a smart response, but you have to know the range you are cutting and/or boosting.

Take will33's advice, go slow and if needed take notes, and even record yourself while changing the EQ. And remember, everything is a compromise.

 

[P bass guy]

Thanks for all the tips. You guys are right. I just got done doing that, and I feel silly - like I should have thought of that on my own. It was helpful and I plan to do it some more to get more familiar with how to set my EQ.

By the way - I think what I was trying to accomplish is cutting at 1.3 kHz - that seems to be the one to fatten up the particular notes I had sounding thin.

Just a little tweak to what I already had. This pic is what I'll try at next rehearsal, first pic I posted in this thread is what I used at last rehearsal that was almost working save for the thin higher notes.

Excited to try this and I will go through one by one and listen to what each slider does some more.

Thanks guys - you're the best!

 

[will33]

A simplified way to view this is to think of the equalizer controls as a bunch of volume controls for different parts of the sound. Where the volume knob makes the whole sound louder or softer, the EQ controls make smaller parts of the sound louder or softer than the rest, thus changing the tone.

When you find a setting you like in your practice space, you can use that as a starting point when you play the rig in different places, but the eq was made to help "equalize" the sound in a room. The same setting will sound very different in a large reverberant space than it does in a smaller room with lots of carpet, drapes and people in it. So, as you get more familiar with it, you can use it to "equalize" your sound, so you can get a similar tone in different places.

 

[will33]

View attachment 442589 Thanks for all the tips. You guys are right. I just got done doing that, and I feel silly - like I should have thought of that on my own. It was helpful and I plan to do it some more to get more familiar with how to set my EQ.

By the way - I think what I was trying to accomplish is cutting at 1.3 kHz - that seems to be the one to fatten up the particular notes I had sounding thin.

Just a little tweak to what I already had. This pic is what I'll try at next rehearsal, first pic I posted in this thread is what I used at last rehearsal that was almost working save for the thin higher notes.

Excited to try this and I will go through one by one and listen to what each slider does some more.

Thanks guys - you're the best!

Not surprising really, our ears have built in curves too. Those middle frequencies sound more prominent to us as we are biologically engineered that way...it's where the human voice is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fletcher–Munson_curves


Kind of goes against the "don't scoop your mids" mantra around here. A little bit of mid cut is actually equalizing the sound to the response of our ears. You can go overboard with it of course, but it's not quite the big no-no some make it seem. It's also why things like guitars and snare drums sound so loud, and we need so much more power to make a bass sound that loud.

The louder the sound goes, the less "scooped" our ears are, meaning they hear things more evenly the louder you go...before damage of course. Some bass amps have a little of that scoop built in their response so they sound more natural to us. That's what people mean when they say "baked in tone", or "just because the knobs are in the middle doesn't mean it's "flat"".

 

[zortation]

+1

For a good rock tone you need some mids, but not ALL of them!

 

[Gab124]

Yeah, mids are really the part that is important to get comfortable knowing about. I guess against what someone said before, some rooms really do require some tweaking in this area. In some bars I play in I really need to boost in the 600-800hz area, but others really need the 250ish area - which by the way has alot of meat but can get out of control and cause mud, so the ear is important to train. Like you I used to really suffer in setting my eq, particularly with a graphic like you are working with. When I moved to amps with less options to adjust I actually did much better. Just my .02.

 

[P bass guy]

I just hope this EQ setting works in my band mix.

I've read, and experienced, that mids help with cutting through on low distorted guitars.

I was fine last weak, the change I'm making is cutting at 1.3 kHz. Hope that's not the frequency I need to cut through the guitar sound.

 

[Moley13]

Agreed, the room will paly a big role, but in this specific scenario, try bumping around 200-800hZ. You'll have to experiment with your eq, and find the spot that works, but that range has a lot of booty.

I just hope this EQ setting works in my band mix.

I've read, and experienced, that mids help with cutting through on low distorted guitars.

I was fine last weak, the change I'm making is cutting at 1.3 kHz. Hope that's not the frequency I need to cut through the guitar sound.

A few things.

I'm an audio engineer, as well as a bass player. In both places, I always feel that a graphic EQ is not (really) there to the heavy lifting of tone shaping. That's what parametric/semi-para/n-band eqs are for (obviously one which is designed for bass is best). Graphic EQs are for solving very specific issues, and should be used AFTER already getting your tone pretty close with another type of EQ. "Issues" could mean bass/string/pickup problems, but MOSTLY means ROOM. In summary - tone shape with a (for eg) 4 band EQ, then dial in the ROOM with the graphic EQ.

Definitely follow those instructions for learning about your GEQ, though. Going with random shapes because they seem sensible is not a logical approach at all. Use your ears! Train your ears! On that topic, if you have a chance, try listening to music with a GEQ, and boosting/cutting particular bands to hear exactly what each one does. Describe the sound with an adjective. "Marshmallowy" might not mean anything to anybody else, but if it helps you remember a sound, do it! If I tell you to think of the colour blue, you can imagine it straight away. We can train to do the exact same thing with sound.

The people saying "distortion" also have a fair point. I have never used distortion live (or recording myself), but on rock recordings I'll often use a touch on the bass just to give it a bit more girth. Don't be put off by the name "distortion" and it's connotations of heavy metal guitar crunch sound. "Distortion" simply means the adding of content which is not a part of the original/intended signal. As this applies to bass, we are talking about harmonic distortion. When people talk about the different sounds "distortion" pedals have, they are really discussing the differences in harmonic (or partial) content added. Most bass-specific distortions only add a few harmonics, usually odd numbered, and this serves to fatten up the note without much audible "crunch" (like a guitar). There are things called "harmonic enhancers" or such, which add harmonics to the signal - these could just as easily be called "distortion" boxes! And for many "distortion" pedals, which offer gentle harmonic distortion, the same could be said in reverse! So maybe consider one of these.

RE: your 1.3kHz cut - this is quite a "nasal" frequency, and many players cut it, and love the solo sound of their bass. Unfortunately, as you mention, this often gets buried in the mix, and may cause you to turn up to absurd volumes. Sometimes compromises must be made! Remember that A) the human ear has certain "critical bands", and if two sounds overlap a band, they mask each other. That 1.3k might not sound nice solo, but when it's soaked up by guitars, your TRUE sound is the scooped one you hear solo with the 1.3kHz turned down. Why have it at all, then? The human brain is capable of "filling in" missing sounds, based on the harmonic spectra being heard. That 1.3kHz can trick the brain into thinking there is a lot more 0-630Hz, and thus give an overall "fatter" sound, without any extra push required from your amp (or bleed into mics, etc.). This is a good thing!

 

[P bass guy]

Thanks. I appreciate that, but now I'm worried that cutting at 1.3 kHz will cause me problems.

Here is the root of the problem with my tone shaping needs. Guitarist plays with a lot of low end EQ and distortion and loud. That's what I'm trying to compete with.

I had trouble getting enough clean volume. Started tweaking the graphic to cut at 40 hz and 60 hz so I don't blow another speaker cab.

I added to the 40-60 hz cut an increase in mids (made a frowny face) and really liked it. Just thought my highs sounded thin on one tune.

Maybe I should try putting graphic flat, using it only to cut 40hz -6 db and cut 60 hz -3 db, and leaving 100 hz through 15 kHz at 0

Then using the 3 band on my bass to increase mids.

Then for the one tune where I sound too thin up high, I could roll back or even cut mids using the basses onboard 3 band.

Does that make more sense?

Back to experimenting I guess.

I do have an overdrive peddle that I don't use by the way, I want to learn to EQ and once I'm dialed in may try some mild overdrive to add to my sound.

Thanks for the information and all the help.

 

[will33]

Thanks. I appreciate that, but now I'm worried that cutting at 1.3 kHz will cause me problems.

Here is the root of the problem with my tone shaping needs. Guitarist plays with a lot of low end EQ and distortion and loud. That's what I'm trying to compete with.

I had trouble getting enough clean volume. Started tweaking the graphic to cut at 40 hz and 60 hz so I don't blow another speaker cab.

I added to the 40-60 hz cut an increase in mids (made a frowny face) and really liked it. Just thought my highs sounded thin on one tune.

Maybe I should try putting graphic flat, using it only to cut 40hz -6 db and cut 60 hz -3 db, and leaving 100 hz through 15 kHz at 0

Then using the 3 band on my bass to increase mids.

Then for the one tune where I sound too thin up high, I could roll back or even cut mids using the basses onboard 3 band.

Does that make more sense?

Back to experimenting I guess.

I do have an overdrive peddle that I don't use by the way, I want to learn to EQ and once I'm dialed in may try some mild overdrive to add to my sound.

Thanks for the information and all the help.

Don't overthink it or worry too much, especially before even having tried it with the band. You're on the right track, just try stuff until it sounds good.

Do be prepared for the fact that on bass, tones that mix really well with the band, out where the audience is, can sometimes not sound so pretty when soloed, and vice versa, pretty solo tone gets "lost" in the mix, etc.

Youtube is full of isolated studio tracks from various popular songs/groups. Have a listen to a few. Notice how much fret clack and string buzz is in some of them that isn't heard it the whole mix. Notice how dirty and distorted some of James Jamersons motown tracks are when heard by themselves. In the mix, they're just "warm and fat", and don't give the impression of being as dirty/distorted as they are. Also, you'll find some that are cutting/punchy in the band mix that when soloed can sound like you shut the bass knob off and are picking with a silver dollar.

 

[Moley13]

Thanks. I appreciate that, but now I'm worried that cutting at 1.3 kHz will cause me problems.

Here is the root of the problem with my tone shaping needs. Guitarist plays with a lot of low end EQ and distortion and loud. That's what I'm trying to compete with.

I had trouble getting enough clean volume. Started tweaking the graphic to cut at 40 hz and 60 hz so I don't blow another speaker cab.

I added to the 40-60 hz cut an increase in mids (made a frowny face) and really liked it. Just thought my highs sounded thin on one tune.

Maybe I should try putting graphic flat, using it only to cut 40hz -6 db and cut 60 hz -3 db, and leaving 100 hz through 15 kHz at 0

Then using the 3 band on my bass to increase mids.

Then for the one tune where I sound too thin up high, I could roll back or even cut mids using the basses onboard 3 band.

Does that make more sense?

Back to experimenting I guess.

I do have an overdrive peddle that I don't use by the way, I want to learn to EQ and once I'm dialed in may try some mild overdrive to add to my sound.

Thanks for the information and all the help.

Definitely get used to using the controls on your bass. That's why they put them on-board! For mid-set fiddling!

This is exactly what I described/I'd recommend. Set the GEQ for the room - leave that set all gig. Use the on-board controls for all of your tone changing needs.

Don't overthink it or worry too much, especially before even having tried it with the band. You're on the right track, just try stuff until it sounds good.

Do be prepared for the fact that on bass, tones that mix really well with the band, out where the audience is, can sometimes not sound so pretty when soloed, and vice versa, pretty solo tone gets "lost" in the mix, etc.

Youtube is full of isolated studio tracks from various popular songs/groups. Have a listen to a few. Notice how much fret clack and string buzz is in some of them that isn't heard it the whole mix. Notice how dirty and distorted some of James Jamersons motown tracks are when heard by themselves. In the mix, they're just "warm and fat", and don't give the impression of being as dirty/distorted as they are. Also, you'll find some that are cutting/punchy in the band mix that when soloed can sound like you shut the bass knob off and are picking with a silver dollar.

Can't emphasise this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ enough