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Double Bass Help w/Focus Series II
- Thread starter RShew
- Start date
- Jan 25, 2006
- 1,292
- 6
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist; Arnold Schnitzer/ Wil DeSola New Standard RN DB
I have a very dark sounding old Prescott and my Realist thru my Walter OR my new Focus2R III sounds great w/ just about any cab that I've tried.
Lately I like my Aguilar 12" w/ horn w/ the Focus. No boomyness probs. Very flat clean response. For really loud gigs I use the Aguilar on top of a Flite w/ a 15" EV. A wall of good tone. At a concert the other night in a large boomy auditorium I did have to crank the mids and highs on my solos for them to cut thru, however.
Each bass is different. On my German bass the Realist doesn't do the whole job. The high end sounds good, but doesn't get the lows fat enough. I end up blending it w/ a K&K or even my old Fishman B100.
On the Prescott the Realist sounds the best. End of story. Deffinately the best pick-up for arco playing that I've ever used in 25+ years of playing.
Lately I like my Aguilar 12" w/ horn w/ the Focus. No boomyness probs. Very flat clean response. For really loud gigs I use the Aguilar on top of a Flite w/ a 15" EV. A wall of good tone. At a concert the other night in a large boomy auditorium I did have to crank the mids and highs on my solos for them to cut thru, however.
Each bass is different. On my German bass the Realist doesn't do the whole job. The high end sounds good, but doesn't get the lows fat enough. I end up blending it w/ a K&K or even my old Fishman B100.
On the Prescott the Realist sounds the best. End of story. Deffinately the best pick-up for arco playing that I've ever used in 25+ years of playing.
Maybe he forgot to read the founders' profile?Freddels said:
http://www.acousticimg.com/message.html
I have to take some exception to Jaromir's assertion as well. I would modify his statement to say that I would definitely look for a bass amp if I want my string bass to sound like a bass guitar.
Jaromir said:
It's fine to have an opinion on the subject, and you are entitled to it. However, it's usually best to get your facts straight first before making definitive statements like "AI amps are NOT bass amps". They were specifically designed to be bass amps, as stated by the founder of the company.
I can understand why some people don't like 'em. While I love my Clarus and Focus to death, I don't care for the whole downfiring combo thing much, and if this were my only experience with AI products, I might not have a very high opinion of them either. But as it is, I find them to be up there with the best bass amps made today, and the footprint of the heads is only a small part of the reason why. YMMV, MYOB, WYSIWYG, YDKWLI, etc.
I didn't want a battle. I just am trying to get my sound louder. It is very confusing and frustrating. I had been suriving for YEARS with the GK and the Realist. I only started looking for a different amp as I needed more volume. I bought the Focus and all of a sudden it is totally different then the GK. I have tried it on tons of gigs and I still end up coming back to the GK when I really don't want to worry about it for the evening. Then I feel guilty for not using my new amp. Round and round I go. Now i am thinking about the new SWR Califonria Blonde. It is rated at 160 watts (more than prior model) and has phantom power in the mic input. I have played through these before w/my realist and it sounds very good. Also my fav guy for tone and lines uses it...Peter Washington. I am not looking forward to the switch to heavier gearr but would gladly do it for consitant tone. I will try and track down a few of EA's cabs before I sell the focus. I do appreciate all of the tips.
Sorry guys, maybe I was too rough - I definitelly didn't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
However, what I read in the AI Founders Note is that they started building bass amps and then modified the design to meet the needs of bass players, guitar players, violinists, keyboard players etc... So what I meant was AI are not EXCLUSIVELY bass amps, they are somehow universal - unlike amps like GK or SWR, for instance. Of course, these are rather electric bass amps, but under certain circumstances can work great for upright as well.
One of the most important specs, the input impedance of the GK MB combo is the same as at the new AI amps - 1MOhm, for example. With SWR Baby Blue head I need to use a preamp (Fishman Blender in my case) and the sound is one of the most beautiful I've ever heard.
After all - what are the greatest bass players on the planet using? GK (Ch.Haden - the purist!, D.Holland), WW (J.Pattitucci, G.Peacock), SWR or Eden (Marc Johnson) etc...
However, what I read in the AI Founders Note is that they started building bass amps and then modified the design to meet the needs of bass players, guitar players, violinists, keyboard players etc... So what I meant was AI are not EXCLUSIVELY bass amps, they are somehow universal - unlike amps like GK or SWR, for instance. Of course, these are rather electric bass amps, but under certain circumstances can work great for upright as well.
One of the most important specs, the input impedance of the GK MB combo is the same as at the new AI amps - 1MOhm, for example. With SWR Baby Blue head I need to use a preamp (Fishman Blender in my case) and the sound is one of the most beautiful I've ever heard.
After all - what are the greatest bass players on the planet using? GK (Ch.Haden - the purist!, D.Holland), WW (J.Pattitucci, G.Peacock), SWR or Eden (Marc Johnson) etc...
I'd keep checking those facts. http://www.acousticimg.com/testimonials.htmlJaromir said:
OURSHREW, don't give up man... keep trying and experimenting. Remember - buying a new pickup will probably be cheaper than buying a new amp. Besides, you might get an even better sound than the Realist with a different pickup and the Focus. Might I suggest a Revolution Solo? Only $99 for a great sounding pickup!!!! Better than a Full Circle for some us RS users.
Jaromir said:
Does Marc Johnson really used SWR or Eden. I really thought he used AI. At least the head. Crazy.
I wouldn't say it's futile, just not the first thing I would look into for your situation. As far as your other questions - I do like the Realist/Focus pairing. Many say it's too muddy, but it works for me. I only use one cab at a time. The LDS almost always for drummerless things. The cxl-110 can go extremely loud for such a small box, so that covers any hard hitting combos where I need some volume but don't want a huge rig. I use the 208 for big bands and outdoor things. It's a dark sounding cab with my bass/pu/amp, so outside is where I have the most success with it. It's been said that pairing two cabs of different size, make, effeciency, etc., can yield wildly unpredictable results (Phase problems, for one) but who knows - you might get lucky. I just like the idea of one sound source aside from the bass itself. (Of course, I have yet to try HATCHBACK's unblending concept...)RShew said:
I've said it before, but there are so many variables it seems like you have to hope you get lucky and stumble on the right combination.
Another thought, if you do go with the FC, I have heard two things: 1, they sound best installed threads up, if you can deal with that being suboptimal for the structural integrity of the bridge. 2. They need the Pro Platinum EQ for Bass to sound like they're supposed to, as the EQ is really tailored for that pickup.
Plenty to mull over - G/L
Maybe you should try Gallien Kruegers separate parts? I've played a lot of GK amps and cabs and they are not bad, especially compared to the small combo (the newer one). Altough Ampeg is more concistent and often much better I've also used the realist on my basses for a long time, and sometimes missed clarity and volume at loud gigs - but has found that it's mostly a question of lots of (good quality) headroom.
You might also concider a compressor. On loud gigs I often bring my EBS MultiComp (and a behringer ADI-21 (which has some sort of tube compression effect, and a Boss bass eq). You can then dial out a clean sound with the eq and fatten it up with compression. Not especially clean but sometimes very useful in loud situations.
Good luck!
/TD
Good luck!
/TD
RShew said:
I have similar problem with Focus 1 , try different cabinet from Glock Acoustic Art, to Low B1 , schroeder etc, it is too much mid howling and boomy, have tried with Highpass filter but volume is gone. Finally I solve the problem by putting Glock Bass Art Pre and it is all perfect now with any cab , bass , and pick up ( KnK and Realist).
Thanks everybody
Tom, your comments help a great deal. I t hink I am running the LDS too hard. I have been using it with the hard hitting trio/quartet format and that is when I am least happy. I always have liked the sound with the realist/Focus and the LDS for quiet gigs. Since so many TB folks like the AI/EA combinations I owe it to myself and the rig to at least try it. Tom I was very glad to hear that you are able to get a decent quality and amount of sound with the Realist/Focus/CXL 110. That amp sounds great/logical next step to me and I will begin the hunt. I was also glad to hear the words of wisdom about the FC. I believe I will stick to the Realist and try cab earching for a while. I was shocked at the difference between the LDS and the Flite Sound 12 with no changes on the amp. I am starting to realize the cab is one of the most important parts of the chain, especially with the Focus! A few more questions then...
1) What is the difference between VL-110 and Cxl 110? I see many used VL's and not too many Cxls.
2) What is a fair price for either of the above cabinets? Fair for both buyer and seller (in good condition).
3) there is a CXL on ebay for $300 plus shipping...fair?
RShew
Tom, your comments help a great deal. I t hink I am running the LDS too hard. I have been using it with the hard hitting trio/quartet format and that is when I am least happy. I always have liked the sound with the realist/Focus and the LDS for quiet gigs. Since so many TB folks like the AI/EA combinations I owe it to myself and the rig to at least try it. Tom I was very glad to hear that you are able to get a decent quality and amount of sound with the Realist/Focus/CXL 110. That amp sounds great/logical next step to me and I will begin the hunt. I was also glad to hear the words of wisdom about the FC. I believe I will stick to the Realist and try cab earching for a while. I was shocked at the difference between the LDS and the Flite Sound 12 with no changes on the amp. I am starting to realize the cab is one of the most important parts of the chain, especially with the Focus! A few more questions then...
1) What is the difference between VL-110 and Cxl 110? I see many used VL's and not too many Cxls.
2) What is a fair price for either of the above cabinets? Fair for both buyer and seller (in good condition).
3) there is a CXL on ebay for $300 plus shipping...fair?
RShew
RShew said:Thanks everybody
Tom, your comments help a great deal. I t hink I am running the LDS too hard. I have been using it with the hard hitting trio/quartet format and that is when I am least happy. I always have liked the sound with the realist/Focus and the LDS for quiet gigs. Since so many TB folks like the AI/EA combinations I owe it to myself and the rig to at least try it. Tom I was very glad to hear that you are able to get a decent quality and amount of sound with the Realist/Focus/CXL 110. That amp sounds great/logical next step to me and I will begin the hunt. I was also glad to hear the words of wisdom about the FC. I believe I will stick to the Realist and try cab earching for a while. I was shocked at the difference between the LDS and the Flite Sound 12 with no changes on the amp. I am starting to realize the cab is one of the most important parts of the chain, especially with the Focus! A few more questions then...
1) What is the difference between VL-110 and Cxl 110? I see many used VL's and not too many Cxls.
2) What is a fair price for either of the above cabinets? Fair for both buyer and seller (in good condition).
3) there is a CXL on ebay for $300 plus shipping...fair?
RShew
The VL is a 3 way design with a mid driver. That cab is voiced very low and very mellow. The CXL is a more traditional (but still transmission line) two way design with a 10" woofer and a coaxil tweeter. Neither of these cabs are produced any more. I'm an EB player, but understand why the VL with its more 'flat' and mellow voicing would be prefered by DB players vs. the more 'standard' voicing of the CXL. I've heard the VL/Walter Woods combination with DB many times, and it's very warm, full and 'woody' sounding... if a little dark... very nice. I've never heard a DB through the newer CXL.
I've seen a number of VL110's for sale for around $350, so that price for a CXL110 seems pretty good.
Choosing an amplifier that will faithfully reproduce what you hear from your bass acoustically can be very challenging.
Most of the time I think what we end up with, is probably a faithful compromise of our natural sound that works well in many different playing situations.
As everyone in this thread knows the louder we have to play,
the harder it is to get a distinct sound. IMHO there is a definite point of diminishing returns. Unless you have the option of sending a mic signal to the house ,or a set of mains it's pretty difficult to amplify an upright past moderate levels, before you get into the "wolflight resonator zone" when you are in close proximity to you're speakers.
The other hurdle is that what works for me with my bass, pickup, amp, and speaker combination probably won't work guite as well for anyone else.
Adittionally, I find that tone control settings only work within
a pretty narrow range of volume control settings. When you try and push the volume past a certian level, the "equalization" settings stop working and sometimes create their own set of
problems.
Ric
Most of the time I think what we end up with, is probably a faithful compromise of our natural sound that works well in many different playing situations.
As everyone in this thread knows the louder we have to play,
the harder it is to get a distinct sound. IMHO there is a definite point of diminishing returns. Unless you have the option of sending a mic signal to the house ,or a set of mains it's pretty difficult to amplify an upright past moderate levels, before you get into the "wolflight resonator zone" when you are in close proximity to you're speakers.
The other hurdle is that what works for me with my bass, pickup, amp, and speaker combination probably won't work guite as well for anyone else.
Adittionally, I find that tone control settings only work within
a pretty narrow range of volume control settings. When you try and push the volume past a certian level, the "equalization" settings stop working and sometimes create their own set of
problems.
Ric
Actually today I change the location of the K&K Bass Max location from under E string to G string and amazingly he howling low mid and all the mess is gone. and even I donot need KK preamp as buffer, just straight to the AI Focus and Glock Acoustic cab.
I think that's a fair price, assuming nothing is wrong with it. I got mine for $484 new, list was $565 or something. It' s strange, but I had that thing for over a year before I started to really appreciate it. Sound wasn't too happening, or maybe it broke in and or I came to appreciate it over time. I would agree with KJung about the diff between VL and CXL, adding that the cxl can have a slightly aggressive nature. I'm sure there are other boxes in that category that would do the trick for you as well, if care to look at the options. Tom Bowlus and Macmrkt are among the more well-versed in this area. You could PM them, and/or search for posts including Tom's shootouts.At-Shew said:Thanks everybody
Tom, your comments help a great deal. I t hink I am running the LDS too hard. I have been using it with the hard hitting trio/quartet format and that is when I am least happy. I always have liked the sound with the realist/Focus and the LDS for quiet gigs. Since so many TB folks like the AI/EA combinations I owe it to myself and the rig to at least try it. Tom I was very glad to hear that you are able to get a decent quality and amount of sound with the Realist/Focus/CXL 110. That amp sounds great/logical next step to me and I will begin the hunt. I was also glad to hear the words of wisdom about the FC. I believe I will stick to the Realist and try cab earching for a while. I was shocked at the difference between the LDS and the Flite Sound 12 with no changes on the amp. I am starting to realize the cab is one of the most important parts of the chain, especially with the Focus! A few more questions then...
1) What is the difference between VL-110 and Cxl 110? I see many used VL's and not too many Cxls.
2) What is a fair price for either of the above cabinets? Fair for both buyer and seller (in good condition).
3) there is a CXL on ebay for $300 plus shipping...fair?
RShew
Keep in mind I am blending Realist with AMT most of the time. Comments about the FC should also be taken with a grain of salt, as you'd just as likely hear many with the opposite opinion.
