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Help with Ledger lines

bassliner50

bassliner50

Mar 20, 2012
5,049
6,333
76
Long Island New York
#1
Hi all. I am able to read standard bass cleff on a slower low intermediate level. I can usually keep up with notation from low E to D above the staff (on 1 ledger line.) Quarter notes, eighth notes, triplets, and rests I read OK if I focus hard. Time and again when a note appears on 2, 3 maybe 4 ledgers above the staff, it trips me up. My brain cannot process what I am looking at in tempo. My thoughts slow down I must think, Oh that is Eb, G, or Ab, then quickly determine its position on my 4 string. Sometimes this could be in the midst of a 2 octave leap and I am quickly overwhelmed and my place in the chart fall behind. Are there any ways to practice these these things that my result in quicker (less painful) progress?
 
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#2
bassliner50 said:
Are there any ways to practice these things that my result in quicker (less painful) progress?
Click to expand...
:laugh: the only practice technique of which i am aware for this situation = "more and more, and then some!" ;)

seriously: keep on keepin' on --- same as you did to get this far! good luck, and onward! :thumbsup:
 
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#4
Are you struggling to identify the note name, or is it mainly difficulty locating what fret to play? If the latter, try this. On bass the interval of a 5th is very familiar. One string and 2 frets up, and on the staff, two lines or two spaces up. Maybe as you get up on the ledger lines you can think of the note that is two lines or spaces below, and you would go up a string and two frets from that more familiar lower note.
 
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#5
skycruiser said:
Are you struggling to identify the note name, or is it mainly difficulty locating what fret to play? If the latter, try this. On bass the interval of a 5th is very familiar. One string and 2 frets up, and on the staff, two lines or two spaces up. Maybe as you get up on the ledger lines you can think of the note that is two lines or spaces below, and you would go up a string and two frets from that more familiar lower note.
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Thank you... I believe the most immediate problem is instant identification of the note in the higher range. Not that I cannot identify them, it is that small segment of time it takes my brain to be certain of its identity. All the while the tempo of the tune is moving ahead and I fall behind unable to keep up or even re establish myself into the proper place on the chart afterward. I am usually OK up to E on the 2nd ledger above the staff. Sure the F, G, A and half tones follow, but these kind of overwhelm me and my thoughts take time to recover, which puts me out of the music. The intervals you mention, I am aware of and I make use of those associations often. Determining the fret I can usually manage, although there is another reason to fall behind. I cannot take my eyes off the notation to locate the proper fret. I found i must rely on muscle memory or an internalized image of the finger board. The reading experience I find to be stressful needing intense focus. I am an old dog trying to learn new tricks. That said, I realize the great importance and many advantages of musical literacy.
 
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#7
One exercise you might try that doesn't even require your bass:

Get some sheet music with lots of ledger lines and sightread it while calling out the note names as fast as you can. Record yourself (use your phone?) and on playback check how many notes you got right and how many you missed. Try different pieces in different keys so you don't start memorizing the notes of one instead of really reading.

Actually that's an exercise that could be used for any sight reading. Next level is sight-sing it, I suppose.
 
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#8
bassliner50 said:
Hi all. I am able to read standard bass cleff on a slower low intermediate level. I can usually keep up with notation from low E to D above the staff (on 1 ledger line.) Quarter notes, eighth notes, triplets, and rests I read OK if I focus hard. Time and again when a note appears on 2, 3 maybe 4 ledgers above the staff, it trips me up. My brain cannot process what I am looking at in tempo. My thoughts slow down I must think, Oh that is Eb, G, or Ab, then quickly determine its position on my 4 string. Sometimes this could be in the midst of a 2 octave leap and I am quickly overwhelmed and my place in the chart fall behind. Are there any ways to practice these these things that my result in quicker (less painful) progress?
Click to expand...

Brother, as a past president of the Dyslexic Bassists Society, I totally get what your are talking about. Frankly, I gave up cold sight reading 50 years ago. Given enough time I can always work it out those elevated figures to the point of mostly it being memorized. But show up at a gig or session and “Here’s your chart. Ready on one.” That is not happening.

Best wishes!

PS: In standard notation , the one that pens the chart can do us a favor using an “8av” designation that tells us to play certain passage a octave higher, but it seems to be rare on bass charts..bas*ards…
 
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#9
My reading in the ledger lines improved a lot when I started learning to play in thumb position on double bass since you spend a lot of time in the etudes up in that range, and sometimes in alto or tenor clef (brutal imho).

Anyway although the material is not helpful from a method perspective on e-bass, I think Simandl Book 2 might at least give you a lot of reading material. What I found after a while of working on some pieces where virtually every note was in the ledgers, my brain kinda started imagining continuous lines across the page and I'd just think of it as playing treble clef. I had also struggled for years on e-bass to get those down, but after just a few months of working through that book, my eyes became able to do it without much difficulty. I still hate tenor and alto clef though.
 
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#10
bassliner50 said:
Thank you... I believe the most immediate problem is instant identification of the note in the higher range. Not that I cannot identify them, it is that small segment of time it takes my brain to be certain of its identity. All the while the tempo of the tune is moving ahead and I fall behind unable to keep up or even re establish myself into the proper place on the chart afterward. I am usually OK up to E on the 2nd ledger above the staff. Sure the F, G, A and half tones follow, but these kind of overwhelm me and my thoughts take time to recover, which puts me out of the music. The intervals you mention, I am aware of and I make use of those associations often. Determining the fret I can usually manage, although there is another reason to fall behind. I cannot take my eyes off the notation to locate the proper fret. I found i must rely on muscle memory or an internalized image of the finger board. The reading experience I find to be stressful needing intense focus. I am an old dog trying to learn new tricks. That said, I realize the great importance and many advantages of musical literacy.
Click to expand...
Instant ID of those notes is just a matter of seeing them over and over and over again. Eventually, you'll see the "hidden staff" above the staff. Sorry, there are no shortcuts.
 
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#14
Hi, The way I initially remembered them was to create a treble and bass staff, put one line between them to represent middle C. Then the next line above that was the E on the bottom line of the treble stave, the next line above is the G, next is B etc. Apart from that, as has been said above, go searching for music with them and practice. C.P.E. Bachs Solfeggietto has been giving me some practice on lines and a lot more besides.
Good luck,
M
 

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