Help with plateauing

[adamaarts]

Thanks for all the responses. I think each of you hit a point that relates one way or another.

I never sight read sheet music because I have extremely poor vision and wouldn't be able to do it live anyway. I made my own notes on chord sheets just so I knew in my own way what to play. I know a little bit of sheet music just from curiosity but nothing that I could jump in and do without some thought.

One point that I know is a major hurdle: is quality and quantity of practice. Having 3 kids and all of life's happenings make it tough, then when I do find motivation and time to practice I just noodle around for a bit and sometimes I'll run scales and find some chords to play. Only change being if I have a gig coming up I'll practice specifically for that for about a week straight or until it's over with. So my first priority will be to make practice a priority.

That's where I need the 'motivation stimulator' haha. I love learning new songs, but when they get extremely hard (like jazz or gospel) I tend to just move on to something else. Maybe I should focus some more time on difficult things instead of jumping ship so soon.

Ive always wanted to excel at walking bass lines so I'll definitely jump into that as well. As far as theory and 'learning it' I fell like I know the scales and shapes on I'd say 75% of the Fretboard and positions, the problem is being able to 'know' which of the notes on a particular song will sound the best in that moment. That's the knowledge I'm looking to attain. Not so much the root notes, but tie in notes, fills, and things like that.

 

[bherman]

Thanks for all the responses. I think each of you hit a point that relates one way or another.

I never sight read sheet music because I have extremely poor vision and wouldn't be able to do it live anyway. I made my own notes on chord sheets just so I knew in my own way what to play. I know a little bit of sheet music just from curiosity but nothing that I could jump in and do without some thought.

One point that I know is a major hurdle: is quality and quantity of practice. Having 3 kids and all of life's happenings make it tough, then when I do find motivation and time to practice I just noodle around for a bit and sometimes I'll run scales and find some chords to play. Only change being if I have a gig coming up I'll practice specifically for that for about a week straight or until it's over with. So my first priority will be to make practice a priority.

That's where I need the 'motivation stimulator' haha. I love learning new songs, but when they get extremely hard (like jazz or gospel) I tend to just move on to something else. Maybe I should focus some more time on difficult things instead of jumping ship so soon.

Ive always wanted to excel at walking bass lines so I'll definitely jump into that as well. As far as theory and 'learning it' I fell like I know the scales and shapes on I'd say 75% of the Fretboard and positions, the problem is being able to 'know' which of the notes on a particular song will sound the best in that moment. That's the knowledge I'm looking to attain. Not so much the root notes, but tie in notes, fills, and things like that.

My sense is what you need is discipline. I raised 2 kids (they're grown now) and time is always a challenge. By Way of example, I had a hard time finding time for exercise. But what I've learned is that the most important thing is to be consistent. 15 minutes a day, every day, focused on 1 or 2 things, will make a big difference over 4-6 months of consistent work. So I just did push-ups and sit-ups every day. Made a huge diffference and took like 10 minutes.

Try focusing for example on learning arpeggio inversions - 1 key starting with C, two octaves in every position, for 1-2 weeks until you have them all down. Then move on to Db. Whatever it is that you want to work on, do it incrementally and most important, Consistenly, and you'll make real progress. You'll also learn the power of consistency and its impact on your progress. Baby steps every day=real progress over time. Noodling is fun but it's not practice - it's fun (I do it too, after I practice).

 

[Jrussblues]

Ive been playing bass for more than 17 years now. I feel like I am way behind in my theory and my improvisation especially in regards to fills and groove.

I mainly grew up listening and playing hard rock. Nothing fancy musically but taught me timing and energy. I learned a lot of funk and hip hop which helped with altering up my styles.

So fast forward to today, now I'm playing in the band at a large church. I feel the area I am severely behind where I should be is the fills and general theory. I don't use chord sheets any more as i do it all by ear and memory. Sometimes I'll look at a chart if I get stuck or forget at rehearsal. But performance is memory only.

I get tons of praise and compliments and I know I am talented and work hard on trying to play the best I can. I have my own little fills I do, but I tend to revert to the same style of just running up and down pentatonics or scales. When I try to recreate some fills on recordings it always intrigues me how they come up with such tasteful and musical ideas. I always try to remember them and use those in other areas, but it's like it just eludes me once I step away.

So any tips or resources on what to practice? I watch a lot of SBL on YouTube which has been helpful but the more I can learn the better.

I looked over the YouTube channel and saw that you seem to focus on rock and pop in your how to section. Have you tried branching out into other genres? I hate country but sometimes I’ll play it just to hear something different and push myself out of my comfort zone.
As for theory, it’s a big bad wolf but if you can find a way to practice it musically and pick apart songs you already know then that can make it easier to digest.

 

[micguy]

Start learning things that you normally wouldn't need to learn. I play in church, but stuff like Elvis Costello makes my fingers and brain cells do different things, adding different licks to my basket of tricks.

 

[40Hz]

You might want to read a book by George Leonard titled: Mastery: The Keys to Success and Long-Term Fulfillment. It's a short no-BS examination of the process of truly mastering a skill. It directly addresses the issue of plateauing, and why that can be made into a step in the process rather than become a dead end. (Spoiler: when mastering something you'll hit a series of plateaus along the way. What you do when you hit them is what allows you to move up to the next level. Sometimes a setback and the frustration it causes is essential to providing you with the necessary energy to break through it.)

Especially useful is the chapter on why resolutions usually fail.

I'm generally very skeptical of self-help books and advice. But this short book is actually very useful and genuinely helpful. Well worth reading for its insights as well as the practical plan it suggests for really coming to grips with whatever it is you want to learn how to do.

Highly recommended.

 

[Pbassmanca]

Oh.......I thought this thread was about something else......

 

[WardEarth]

A church is probably not the best place to let loose and explore you're musical horizons. You can do a lot on your own with music that doesn't adhere to a strict set of boundaries. A book of scales might be nice to have. I've been playing with the whole/half - half/whole scale a bit, its very weird and cool. I also recommend making friends with the dark side, there must be balance in the force. To each their own though. Effects help some as well, extreme fuzz and a wah pedal.

 

[WardEarth]

You might be right where you need to be, you know. Let God use you.

Totally understand what you're saying Bob, but did you have to say it like that? Mofo'n funny

 

[WardEarth]

I am in a similar situation, except I'm between bands and completely out of new ideas, so I am not even in a plateau... I'm in a rut.

I'm kinda right there with you man, just gotta power through or find a new band.

 

[GroovyBaby]

I'm surprised how few responses suggest lessons. Throughout my life, whenever I've taken lessons with someone good I've been amazed at how helpful it actually is. You can move forward on your own, but a good teacher will call you out on your shortcomings and force you to focus on them. You might not even be aware of some of them. I've played bass for over 20 years now and just started taking lessons again about 7 weeks ago. Music theory, fret board familiarity, and reading are now my main focus and I can already see how the lessons are changing my playing. I signed up for lessons with Cliff Engle (International Institute of Bass) and its really been a crash course for me. There are other online instructors if you can't find someone near by. Knowing I have a lesson every week forces some discipline that I was lacking in my practice schedule. I played a lot, I didn't practice a lot.

 

[Jay Corwin]

A lot of us get stuck in that rut who learned by ear playing rock music. There's only so many tricks there. My playing didn't really expand much until I started playing jazz/swing - and I'm not talking about Jaco level stuff. Just learning how to walk inside of jazz standards, many of which are blues patterns was helpful. The genre wasn't as important as the fact that it forced me out of my comfort zone, and made me reach a bit. I think that is the key to getting passed any plateau. You have to reach for something that is currently above your ability level, but within reach if you are willing to put in work to get there.

Some guys will sit down and practice material that they already know, and have known for years. This might be helpful for brushing up before a gig, but it won't move the needle on your skills.

Not everyone is going to have enough time to learn to sight read, especially if you have other obligations in life. However you can still learn to read enough to take on some educational material. There's just such a big difference between learning songs, and learning music in my opinion (and I'm not formally trained). If you can teach yourself to read bass clef on just a beginners level, you'll be able to dive into some valuable books out there for self teaching. You will get out of them what you put into them. Learning just a little bit of reading will open up a whole new world of reference material for you.

 

[SteveCS]

Start learning things that you normally wouldn't need to learn. I play in church, but stuff like Elvis Costello makes my fingers and brain cells do different things, adding different licks to my basket of tricks.

I will second this. Pick a piece that is a challenge but that perhaps you have no intention of playing live or with a band - maybe something outside the normal genre pool - and learn it. Even better is something not written for bass, like a horn solo or vocal melody. Get a transcription and work it out for bass guitar. Go a bar or two at a time. See how the tune fits the chords - ultimately this is what riffs and fills also need to do.

 

[mambo4]

the problem is being able to 'know' which of the notes on a particular song will sound the best in that moment. That's the knowledge I'm looking to attain. Not so much the root notes, but tie in notes, fills, and things like that.

I was waiting for the OP to spell out his needs more clearly.

To learn a phrase from any tune and then apply it in your own playing
requires you to understand the 2 contexts in which the phrase was played:

• harmonic context
• stylistic context

So, study harmony and study real examples of styles you wish to play

The harmonic context takes understanding harmony and chord progressions at the functional level.

Can you name the specific notes of any 7th chord off the top of your head?
Do you know what the 7 diatonic chords are?
Do you know what cadences are?
Do you know what I-iv-ii-V means?
Do you know what a secondary dominant is?​

Check the theory PDF linked in my signature. It spells out the basics quite well.

I never sight read sheet music because I have extremely poor vision and wouldn't be able to do it live anyway.... I know a little bit of sheet music just from curiosity but nothing that I could jump in and do without some thought.

I say it too many times here: you don't need to be a fluent sight reader to benefit from knowing notation.
In terms of accuracy and clarity, and especially for rhythm,
notation is superior to every other form of musical communication.
I can't sight read, but I can decipher the dots on the page given time.
It is so valuable to be able to read -even if not fluently sight read -
I would never go back to just chord symbols or (ew) tab

forget about real-time sight reading for now.
slow down, do give it some thought, take the time and make the effort.
trust me, it is worth it.

the goal, to spell it out:
You want to reach a point where you can sort of think:
"that riff is cool. what are the chords there ? C , F, G? Seems like a I - IV - V riff."
then later: "this new song has a I- IV -V part. Maybe i can put in that cool riff I learned..."

the ultimate goal, of course, is that you practice this stuff until it becomes instinctive, and without thinking, know ahead of time what it any riff in your 'library' will sound like - you just hear it in your head and play it.

 

[Shishka Bob]

Totally understand what you're saying Bob, but did you have to say it like that? Mofo'n funny

Wow.

 

[adamaarts]

I was waiting for the OP to spell out his needs more clearly.

To learn a phrase from any tune and then apply it in your own playing
requires you to understand the 2 contexts in which the phrase was played:

• harmonic context
• stylistic context

So, study harmony and study real examples of styles you wish to play

The harmonic context takes understanding harmony and chord progressions at the functional level.

Can you name the specific notes of any 7th chord off the top of your head?
Do you know what the 7 diatonic chords are?
Do you know what cadences are?
Do you know what I-iv-ii-V means?
Do you know what a secondary dominant is?​

Check the theory PDF linked in my signature. It spells out the basics quite well.



I say it too many times here: you don't need to be a fluent sight reader to benefit from knowing notation.
In terms of accuracy and clarity, and especially for rhythm,
notation is superior to every other form of musical communication.
I can't sight read, but I can decipher the dots on the page given time.
It is so valuable to be able to read -even if not fluently sight read -
I would never go back to just chord symbols or (ew) tab

forget about real-time sight reading for now.
slow down, do give it some thought, take the time and make the effort.
trust me, it is worth it.

the goal, to spell it out:
You want to reach a point where you can sort of think:
"that riff is cool. what are the chords there ? C , F, G? Seems like a I - IV - V riff."
then later: "this new song has a I- IV -V part. Maybe i can put in that cool riff I learned..."

the ultimate goal, of course, is that you practice this stuff until it becomes instinctive, and without thinking, know ahead of time what it any riff in your 'library' will sound like - you just hear it in your head and play it.

I went through the PDF. I'll revert to it again, but mostly I "know" most of it, but my problem is practicing it. Are there practical lessons or exercises I could do? I know my main weakness is the 7s, I know my major and minor chords all up the scale in major and minor keys, but only recently have dove into try to memorize the 7s. I think one thing I could do is practicing just writing out the chords in a scale (like the chart on that PDF) but from memory and trying different keys as much as possible.

Edit: By know I mean I know the idea and I know the scale shapes, but knowing which chord is major/minor needs work (example if someone said go to the 5, I wouldn't immediately know if that's maj/minor in a certain key, but usually I knew the shape and could guess it)

 

[adamaarts]

Thanks again for all the suggestions. Each has given me a little bit of motivation and excitement to go practice and implement. I'm very appreciative of the help.

 

[mambo4]

if someone said go to the 5, I wouldn't immediately know if that's maj/minor in a certain key

The pattern of chord qualities in a harmonized scale is actually simple.
I suggest you carefully read page 12.

"The Roman numeral notation is very convenient, and you should know this sequence by heart; it will let you anticipate the chords to be expected in any given key."

 

[tlc1976]

Start learning things that you normally wouldn't need to learn. I play in church, but stuff like Elvis Costello makes my fingers and brain cells do different things, adding different licks to my basket of tricks.

I agree with this too. Or learn parts note for note that you haven't already, it forces you out of your autopilot zone into playing in a way you normally wouldn't.

Many times I come up with the most creative parts when I don't have a bass in hand. If you do too, work these out on the bass so you can incorporate them into your songs.

Kids and family is the reason I stopped playing out and stopped playing near as much. But I still practice when I can, and I've influenced my daughter to take up some instruments.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Edit: By know I mean I know the idea and I know the scale shapes, but knowing which chord is major/minor needs work (example if someone said go to the 5, I wouldn't immediately know if that's maj/minor in a certain key, but usually I knew the shape and could guess it)

The 5th chord in a key will be major if you are in a major key. If in a minor key it will be minor. Do a Google on harmonizing a scale. After you harmonize three or four scales this will all fall into place.

Good luck.

 

[Badwater]

Sounds like you left out the most basic fundamental element of all modern music. Learn the basics of the blues. It's DNA is found in all forms of Jazz, Gospel, R&B, Soul, Rock, Pop, etc... The Blues lends itself to simple but sophisticated techniques that incorporate fills, turnarounds, transitions, as well as improvisation. Once you learn the basics of blues, all the other elements you seek will come naturally when you play.