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Double Bass help with upright amp/cab

thejumpcat

thejumpcat

thejumpcat
Sep 30, 2007
719
58
66
metro-Detroit
www.2stonesevents.com
#1
Frustration at yesterday's gig drove me to the Web today. I play a 1949 Kay Swingmaster with a Realist p/u through an older AI Contra and AI extension cab in a jump blues band (myself, vocalist / harmonica through a tweed Bassman, guitarist through a tweed Bassman or Deluxe, and a drummer on a small bop kit).

Usually I am happy with my sound. Usually my bandmates aren't. Two weeks ago I played through a 4x10 Hartke setup that I didn't really like, but my singer thought it was great. Prior, I went through a borrowed GK 2x10 combo that the other three guys dug. Myself, I wasn't impressed with it either because it didn't sound like an upright.

I like the AI's portability and tone, but sometimes it's lacking in volume -- especially on higher-volume gigs like yesterday's on a river boat blues cruise. The sound guy tapped the DI, but then I struggled to keep my upright from howling on slow blues tunes where I wanted the notes to ring.

So I'm contemplating a different rig. I've read a lot about Acme Low B cabinets and am wondering what upright players think of them. Also, looking for some ideas on heads, preferably with an increase in power over what I'm using now.

Thanks, and looking forward to everyone's thoughts!
 
#3
I double & often use an Eden Traveler w/various cabs, among other things. For upright I pair it w/an EA CXL-112. I highly recommend their cabs for accurate sound when pushed. I expect it would pair well w/your AI. ...haven't heard much about Acme & URB. Have you searched TB? There are some longstanding threads on URB cabs.
 
#4
thejumpcat said:
I've read a lot about Acme Low B cabinets and am wondering what upright players think of them...
Click to expand...
Although Acme products are very high quality, reasonably priced and Andy Lewis the owner is a great guy, I think there are better choices for DB cabs. Instead I'd highly recommend any of the Euphonic Audio cabs, which are all very efficient and sound great. One of the EA Wizzy cabs (110, 112, or M-line) along with your AI Contra may well be all that you need.
 
#5
Some folks swear by AI combo with Acme B1 speaker, but basically it sounds like your band is similar to one that I play in, ie that the band wants a big bass sound like on the records they listen to, and that isn't really the same sound as the acoustic sound of a double bass played on its own. Hence they love the sound you get with a big amp and 4x10 cab, and you hate it. I think you have to recognise this basic conflict and then work out how you are going to compromise. Anyway, that is my perspective. (I have an EA M-line on order to go with my series 2 Contra).
 
#6
I have no personal experience with the EA cabs, but as others have already said, they might be a good choice for what you need. I've read plenty about them on here, and it sounds like they can put out quite a bit of sound with no problems.

I've never played through an AI, but I've heard them at some shows, and it seems like it would be enough for most situations (with an occasional ext. cab, of course). I think a lot of these "loud enough" problems can also be fixed by the rest of the band blending in better with your own sound. These are just my .2 cents.
 
#7
I'm running and Ai Clarus (400 watts into 4 ohms) with a EA Wizzy 112. This rig can go loud while retaining a semblance of upright tone and sounds really sweet at any reasonable volume. I use a Fishman Full Circle PU, which I believe is another significant factor in attaining reasonable UB tone at higher volumes. The Clarus has enough power to run two Wizzies for really insane volume if you need it. I've never done this myself.

Maybe you could just run a Wizzy as an extension to your Coda and get the volume you need.

Thanks,
Phil
 
#9
I use the markbass little mark II and EA cabs and I couldn't be happier. I went through a lot of different configurations before I finally found what worked for me. I specifically use the 110 wizzy and the cxl112. Very light weight and they sound great.
 
#10
Another one that works real good, despite others opinions......

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gk_700rb2_212combo.jpg


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And if you are able, this would be #1 IMO......

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#11
At one time I actually owned a SB 12 and it's a very nice amp for upright. Unfortunately it's pretty hard to find one these days, even though they do ocassionaly apear on ebay. I would have to disagree with you on the Hartke's. The ones that I've used sounded very nasal with my pickup and bass. I'm personally not fond of the GK's either with the exception of the MBS. Euphonic Audio cabinets are excellent for DB there are others as well.

Ric
 
#12
The SB-12 was my first amp back in the 60's (what was cooler than having BOB in lights?!?).

But after picking one up at a Vintage Guitar show I think it's not an amp I'd want to carry around these days -- especially since its mere 25 watts isn't enough in many situations these days. Too bad.

But it is cool. ;)

You can buy the tolex square pattern materials as well as the Ampeg style grille cloth. Maybe I could dress up a Wizzy??
 
#13
Bob Gollihur said:
The SB-12 was my first amp back in the 60's (what was cooler than having BOB in lights?!?).

But after picking one up at a Vintage Guitar show I think it's not an amp I'd want to carry around these days -- especially since its mere 25 watts isn't enough in many situations these days. Too bad.

But it is cool. ;)

You can buy the tolex square pattern materials as well as the Ampeg style grille cloth. Maybe I could dress up a Wizzy??
Click to expand...

Bob,
You are to funny. I have a B-15N and although I love the amp, I'm not taking it out on many gigs anymore. Technology has just jumped so far ahead. Tubes do sound different but AI, Euphonic Audio, Markbass (Little Mark II) and Walter Woods amps sound very warm and "tube like" with lots better definition and clarity. However in the studio, all things being equal, it's pretty hard to beat the sound of the B-15's, but that's a controlled environment.

Ric
 
#14
I got my Ampeg B-15N (1 step up I guess from the sb-12) about 8 years ago for $300. Spent $150 on cleanup and new tubes. Now I see them on eBay occasionally for as much as $1500! Crazy.

I wonder if anyone knows the wattage for that one? I get a pretty tremendious amount of volume with it, way more than I have ever needed. Admittedly I don't do a lot of big venues but even outdoors in big fields it's been ample. No pun intended.

And yes. it sucks to haul the sucker around. In a way, this is a good thing, because I only bother when it's absolutely necessary. :cool:

update: just found my own answer:
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# B-15N

* 2 channels
* 3 inputs (mid-60s) 4 inputs (late-60s)
* One heavy-duty 15" speaker
* 25 watts (early 60s), 30 watts RMS, 69 watts peak (mid-60s)
* 3-6SL7, 2-6L6, 1-5AR4
* 66 lbs., 21 x 21-3/4 x 14-1/2 (early 60s); 76 lbs., 21 x 21 x 14-1/2 (mid-60s)
* $355.00 (early 60s), $399.50 (mid-60s)

Wow, but it must be very efficient!
 
#15
Yeah, I played through a Sb12 (pretty sure it was that and not the B15) on a friends' recital back in school...the sound coming out of that amp was making me melt it sounded so good. So warm and buttery and full...if I ever have space for something like that, I would pick one up if I found one for the right price.
 
#16
thejumpcat, I can imagine what it's like with a geetar player AND a harp player and their tweed Bassman rigs. In a word, "loud", if it's anything like the jump blues guitar & harp fellars I know.

For starters, here is a good set of information to start to gather info on a lot of amp and cabinet choices for DB if you like. [ Edit - No references to Acme. Odd. Search this forum though if you want more on the Acme. ]

As for me, I owned a Series I Contra for 7 years. I had the EX extension cab too. But eventually in most of my gigging situations (straightahead jazz, but often w/ loud musicians and noisy rooms), I found I fared better with EA cabinets and heads from both EA and AI. Like others have noted, there are lots of other options and some very excellent choices and combinations.

robgrow and Phil Redman made the same good suggestion. Maybe a front-firing extension cab is all you need, especially if you like the sound you get now from your Contra and Realist. There is a recent thread or two in this forum about adding an extension cab to a Contra/Coda, like this one:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345813

mstclairmiller makes some good observations too in his post above too. :)

When I decided to sell my Contra + EX, I ended up getting a new head (AI Focus 2R) and a second EA cab (Wizzy M-line). But I was on a spending spree. If you really like your sound now and just need more wallop and punch for some of your gigs, adding a front-firing extension cab might be the most cost-effective route.

[ Edit - I also used an iAMP-200 Wizzy combo for 3 years or so in between my old Contra and my newest setup described above. I was very happy with the combo, and I use it now as a backup rig and an extension cabinet. My bandmates were happy with the change too. Of course, if they all didn't play so durn loud ... ]
 
#17
Bob Gollihur said:
The SB-12 was my first amp back in the 60's (what was cooler than having BOB in lights?!?).

But after picking one up at a Vintage Guitar show I think it's not an amp I'd want to carry around these days -- especially since its mere 25 watts isn't enough in many situations these days. Too bad.

But it is cool. ;)

You can buy the tolex square pattern materials as well as the Ampeg style grille cloth. Maybe I could dress up a Wizzy??
Click to expand...

Hey, Bob, where can I get some grille cloth? My retro-head band mates with their 50s Fender Pro amp and '41 Slingerland Radio King drums may like my sound more if I 'retro-up' my M-line when it arrives:smug:. It would also make the cab less attractive to the light fingered when I'm at the bar with my back to the stage...

(BTW the reissue B15 is 100 watts, but also 110lbs. A completely insane package, but what a sound!)
 
#18
MingusAmongUs said:
I got my Ampeg B-15N (1 step up I guess from the sb-12) about 8 years ago for $300. Spent $150 on cleanup and new tubes. Now I see them on eBay occasionally for as much as $1500! Crazy. :cool: Wow, 35 watts, it must be very efficient!
Click to expand...

Mingus Among Us,
The B-15 came first, then the B-12 (I've only seen them in "Ampeg: The Story Behind the Sound") then the SB-12. According to the book the SB-12 was built as a companion amp for the Baby Bass. Both the B-15 and the SB-12 have a rather unique double baffle porting system.
IMHO this contributes to the sound and efficency of those amplifiers. In the Ampeg book there is a wonderful picture of Mingus posing with a Baby Bass and the ill fated BT-15.

Ric
 
#19
thejumpcat, if you have a Series I w/ no high pass filter, it might be interesting to see what that amp and your Realist would sound like with one. The HPF-Pre would cost less than any extension cab.

When I use the HPF built in to my Focus, it clears up a lot of the boominess in the low end from the piezo pickup signal. Everyone in the band seems to be able to hear the bass better. IMO, it's not just the fundamental pitches that get filtered, it's also the initial hit on each pizz pluck that's less boomy and thumpy and speaks better. I still strive for what I think most people would call a thicker "old school" tone. Yet the HPF just seems to help tighten up the tone and the feel w/ my pickup. I think for me one of the spinoff benefits is that this helps me get a tighter feel w/ the drummer too. If overused, the filter can thin things out too much and create an unnatural sound. But in a live situation, it just helps the speaker you already have cut through better and not work as hard.
 
#20
mstclairmiller said:
Hey, Bob, where can I get some grille cloth? My retro-head band mates with their 50s Fender Pro amp and '41 Slingerland Radio King drums may like my sound more if I 'retro-up' my M-line when it arrives:smug:. It would also make the cab less attractive to the light fingered when I'm at the bar with my back to the stage...

(BTW the reissue B15 is 100 watts, but also 110lbs. A completely insane package, but what a sound!)
Click to expand...

I think the original B15 was 65 watts, could be wrong.

As for grill cloth

http://www.mojomusicalsupply.com/products.asp?id=44986
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http://www.ampparts.com/

some also have cabinet coverings.

That brings back the memory of scraping burned tolex off cabinets and replacing it, along with fresh grill cloth after a club fire in the 70's fried all of our gear in the middle of the night. Everything still had a faint BBQ smell (would have been good for the blues circuit), but it was the cheap way to go as we couldn't afford to buy replacement stuff.
 

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