Hey bassers theory question

[Rip Van Dan]

Not sure if this is where this question goes, but if its not I am sure the admin will move it.

I was just watching a blues bass video on Bass Buzz (caveat for the most part I am a self taught bass player}

The instructor was talking about a 12 bar blues progression and said the notes (keys) were all 7ths. G7 C7 and D7 (I, IV, V) I believe. He then went on to play a riff using a major pentatonic scale. To my understanding the major pentatonic scale doesn't use 7ths its R,2,3,5,6,O
if this is the case why would he use the term G7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

Any help is appreciated.

He's using 7th chords because they cause tension in the music. it gives a bit of an edge to the song.

However, here's where the confusion comes from, The G7 chord does not use the major 7th interval (G, B, D, F#). It uses the minor 7th interval so it's spelled out G, B, D, F. That 7th chord uses a minor 7th interval from the root, NOT a major 7th interval. Reason for that is that using the major 7th interval in a chord gives a bit of a restful or dreamy character to the sound/chord. Using the minor 7th interval gives it a tense sound that is begging for resolution back to a major chord. 7th chords are most commonly used on the V chord (in a I, IV, V progression) to add tension begging for resolution. The V chord is already a "leading chord" meaning it really wants the next chord to be the I of the I, IV, V progression. It's often used in Blues in all the chords in the progression just to get that edgier sound. That is also fairly commonly used in Rock music too, but the foundation of using it in all the chords comes from the blues.

To confuse matters even more, you will find chords that are called minor 7th chords and that means that it is a minor chord (G, Bb, D, F), which has a lowered third. The 3rd of the chord decides if it's a major or a minor chord and totally changes the character of the chord's sound. When you lower the normal 3rd of a chord, that turns it into a minor chord. The 7th in a minor 7th chord is also the lowered 7th, but it is called minor 7th as the name of the chord because of that dropped 3rd, not because of the minor 7th interval. If you use the major 7th interval, then the chord becomes known as a major 7th chord written as Gmaj7 (G, B, D, F#). Common use over the years has called the major chord with an added minor 7th note to just be known just as a 7th chord such as G7, C7, D7 because that's the 7th chord everyone uses all the time.

You can play a major Pentatonic scale over those 7 chords with no problem because the character of the sound of a 7th chord is that of a major chord, not a minor chord. The minor 7th interval is actually pretty commonly used in bass runs that are boxy in shape (such as in the song Crossroads) using the minor 7th interval instead of the 6th as they move across the strings

Hope that helps!

 

[DRut]

Pentatonics are blues magic. It’s worth diving in deep and really looking at how your favorite players, both bassist and other instruments, are using pentatonics to get what they are doing.

Think of it in layers. Roots. Triad chord tones, 1, 3, 5. (Got a flavor now! Major or minor) Extensions: the spice drawer. 7ths, 9ths, 10ths, 13ths.

First level, basic cooking. Safe in the kitchen. Big roots.

Triads, you can walk around a bit. Stay in key, outline the chord profession, alert to the changes. You still have the job.

Pentatonic, still staying in the safe zone. Still got the job.

Blues scale, check out my flat 5! Let me put some stank face on!

6, 7, 9, 10, . I’m gonna kill that keyboard player if he keeps walking in my sh…..

Full scales and modes. All these things overlay the previous in all positions of the fret board. More complexity, more choices. But not a requirement. But now you’re exploring. Starting to get side eye from the guys.

Full on walking and phrases with approach notes, tensions, soloing chops, you start listening to jazz. Jaco gets mentioned. The blues band gets another guy who’s not so busy. You don’t care.

A staple of the great blues guitarists, sax players, horns, and piano guys is the blending of major and minor pentatonics and blues scales. Once you really hear it, you’ll hear it everywhere. The third is switch hitting. The semi tone slides and slurs 2-3, 4-flat 5, 6-7. Bends. They know where they are and what they are trying to say.

This has got to be the greatest post ever. "blues scale, check out my flat 5! Let me put some stank face on" classic

 

[CircleOf5ths]

Not sure if this is where this question goes, but if its not I am sure the admin will move it.

I was just watching a blues bass video on Bass Buzz (caveat for the most part I am a self taught bass player}

The instructor was talking about a 12 bar blues progression and said the notes (keys) were all 7ths. G7 C7 and D7 (I, IV, V) I believe. He then went on to play a riff using a major pentatonic scale. To my understanding the major pentatonic scale doesn't use 7ths its R,2,3,5,6,O
if this is the case why would he use the termG7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

Any help is appreciated.

There are both major pentatonic scales and minor pentatonic scales, and they are constructed differently. Your assumption that he was talking about a major pentatonic scale when playing over a blues progression is probably the root of the confusion.

The major pentatonic is created using the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, and 6th degree of a "major scale" and then starting over at the next octave. So what you stated about how a major pentatonic scale is created is correct.

However, blues scales are based on natural minor scales, not major scales. Minor pentatonic scales are created using a "natural minor scale" (not a major scale) playing ONLY the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th degree of the natural minor scale (then starting over for next octave.)

For example, a C major scale would contain C D E F G A B. The C major pentatonic scale would there contain C D E G A. However, a natural A minor scale would contain A B C D E F G (same notes as its relative key C major, just a different mode... the Aeolian mode). The A minor pentatonic scale would therefore contain A C D E G and then start over at the next A octave.

NOTE: The two relative major and minor pentatonic scales (C major pentatonic w/ CDEGA and A minor pentatonic ACDEGA) contain the exact same notes but the tonality is different.

Pentatonic scales do NOT contain semitones or half-steps, so there is no tension in the scale that needs to be resolved which is why they always sound good. All intervals in pentatonic scales (whether major or minor pentatonic) are minor 3rds and major 2nds/wholetones/whole steps.

The C major and A minor "keys" share the same key signature (making them relative, not parallel, keys). And both relative keys have 7 notes which can be used to create all sorts of chords including 7th chords at any scale degree. However, when you're using a pentatonic scale to solo over the chords playing lead guitar or bass lines , you will stick to the 5 notes in the corresponding pentatonic scale.

Hope that helps.

 

[MonetBass]

Not sure if this is where this question goes, but if its not I am sure the admin will move it.

I was just watching a blues bass video on Bass Buzz (caveat for the most part I am a self taught bass player}

The instructor was talking about a 12 bar blues progression and said the notes (keys) were all 7ths. G7 C7 and D7 (I, IV, V) I believe. He then went on to play a riff using a major pentatonic scale. To my understanding the major pentatonic scale doesn't use 7ths its R,2,3,5,6,O
if this is the case why would he use the termG7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

Any help is appreciated.

A minor pentatonic scale does include the 7th: R-3-4-5-7-O. In most blues tunes, that's the scale being used.

EDIT: @CircleOf5ths beat me to it.

 

[tshapiro]

A couple of thoughts if you’re trying to figure out why certain notes work and others don’t. First off, there are rules and then there’s breaking the rules. And sometimes the magic is in the progression of the chords or melody that make breaking the rules work. For example, blues in G. Sliding from the flat 3rd to the major 3rd works. The flat 5th works. The sharp 5 can work when done right (Think the turnaround in At Last by Etta James). Also in At Last(F major), there’s a change up where the Gm switches to a G7 which is not In the key… but it works in the context of the song. Also, as mentioned before the relative Major C (Ionian) and Am (Aeolian) share the same notes. But also so does D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, B Diminished. So, an advanced player will cleverly change the tonal context to introduce additional notes into the song. My point with this is, there is not always a straight forward rule for why certain notes work. There are your basic modes of a scale, and styles which emphasize certain notes (pentatonics) and certain tensions (I.e. 7ths) but they are guideline contexts. Someone can very well make notes outside the rules work.

 

[NotAGardener]

The chord symbols summarise the basic overall harmony and the transient presence of the 6th as a passing tone in the bass doesn't really change that*. It is safe to assume that the 7ths will appear elsewhere, most likely guitar given the genre. It isn't necessary or even desirable for the bass to play every note in the chord every time.

It might be worth looking at the relationship of those 6ths with the next chord - see how it is either a chord tone (A as 6th of C is also 3rd of F, and D as 6th of F is also 5th of G) or leads by step to a chord tone (E as 6th of G leads to F in the V-IV change).

* It could be argued that with the 6th in the bass the chord is temporarily 'm7b9' (e.g. C7 becomes A, C, E, G, Bb = Am7b9), but you'd have to look at each example individually to decide if that is truly the case and whether or not it matters.

This stuff is Martian to me but sounds foundational and something that would be musically eye opening. Can you guys recommend a book or other resource that explains the subject area concepts such that a newbie can understand and make use of it?

 

[Lionel Albert]

Not sure if this is where this question goes, but if its not I am sure the admin will move it.

I was just watching a blues bass video on Bass Buzz (caveat for the most part I am a self taught bass player}

The instructor was talking about a 12 bar blues progression and said the notes (keys) were all 7ths. G7 C7 and D7 (I, IV, V) I believe. He then went on to play a riff using a major pentatonic scale. To my understanding the major pentatonic scale doesn't use 7ths its R,2,3,5,6,O
if this is the case why would he use the termG7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

Any help is appreciated.

Hi !

I hope I can help you, I wrote for you 48 measures of blues lines.

1. Only roots, 5ths and minor 7ths
2. Only roots, 5ths, minor 7ths and tension notes (major 7ths)
3. Only roots and diatonic/chromatic motions
4. Arpeggios and chromatic motion (tension)

You will notice that there is no 3rd at all in exercises 1, 2 and 3 except at the end.
There is no minor 7th at all in the last exercise.

I hope you can read music.

 

[DRut]

Hi !

I hope I can help you, I wrote for you 48 measures of blues lines.

1. Only roots, 5ths and minor 7ths
2. Only roots, 5ths, minor 7ths and tension notes (major 7ths)
3. Only roots and diatonic/chromatic motions
4. Arpeggios and chromatic motion (tension)

You will notice that there is no 3rd at all in exercises 1, 2 and 3 except at the end.
There is no minor 7th at all in the last exercise.

I hope you can read music.

I can and I will . I think this was really awesome of you to do and I will practice it tomorrow. Thank you very much,,, once again really cool

 

[Lionel Albert]

I can and I will . I think this was really awesome of you to do and I will practice it tomorrow. Thank you very much,,, once again really cool

You're welcome, it's not a big deal for me, if you want other lines tell me.