Hey bassers theory question

[DRut]

Not sure if this is where this question goes, but if its not I am sure the admin will move it.

I was just watching a blues bass video on Bass Buzz (caveat for the most part I am a self taught bass player}

The instructor was talking about a 12 bar blues progression and said the notes (keys) were all 7ths. G7 C7 and D7 (I, IV, V) I believe. He then went on to play a riff using a major pentatonic scale. To my understanding the major pentatonic scale doesn't use 7ths its R,2,3,5,6,O
if this is the case why would he use the termG7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

Any help is appreciated.

 

[devnulljp]

They're 7th chords -- R357

 

[SteveCS]

why would he use the termG7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

The chord symbols summarise the basic overall harmony and the transient presence of the 6th as a passing tone in the bass doesn't really change that*. It is safe to assume that the 7ths will appear elsewhere, most likely guitar given the genre. It isn't necessary or even desirable for the bass to play every note in the chord every time.

It might be worth looking at the relationship of those 6ths with the next chord - see how it is either a chord tone (A as 6th of C is also 3rd of F, and D as 6th of F is also 5th of G) or leads by step to a chord tone (E as 6th of G leads to F in the V-IV change).

* It could be argued that with the 6th in the bass the chord is temporarily 'm7b9' (e.g. C7 becomes A, C, E, G, Bb = Am7b9), but you'd have to look at each example individually to decide if that is truly the case and whether or not it matters.

 

[dreamadream99]

Yes, blues chords are all dominant sevenths. The chords are what the whole band is playing. The melody, or singer, or soloist may not use every note in every chord.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Better walk before you can run. This is a guitar focused link, but does indicate the trouble you can get into How To Mix The Major & Minor Pentatonic Scales - Happy Bluesman.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Let's take the chord C7:
Chord tones are: C, E, G, Bb
Extensions are natural unless otherwise noted, and in traditional blues these tend to be natural, which adds: D, F, A (these notes exist even if nobody is actually playing them.)
The full scale built from that chord would be dominant (Mixolydian) CDEFGABb

The major pentatonic in C is C, D, E, G, A. All those notes are already within our chord, so it's an easy and familiar shape that we can lay right over the top.

You will often hear soloists, especially guitars, substitute a minor pentatonic over dominant chords, especially in blues. In that case, you'll hear C, Eb, F, G, Bb. The blues is interesting in that the third can be ambiguous, so it's quite common to hear people either alternate between those major and minor pentatonic scales, or play the minor pentatonic using both thirds. For example, over C7 play Eb, hammer on to E natural, then play C. This motif is very common in blues, both in melody and as a soloing concept.

 

[bholder]

. It isn't necessary or even desirable for the bass to play every note in the chord every time.

This. Careful with 7ths unless you're resolving up to the root on the downbeat, for example.

 

[Dlew919]

What they said. The tensions in the blues - the b7 against the 6 or the 7, the b3 against the 3, the b5 against the 5 … that’s the blues.

Use your ears. Listen to the great blues bands. Muddy, b b, wolf. Listen to the bass. And in fact start with lesser blues bands. Just get used to what the bass does. Then apply your major pentatonic. Take it at your speed. You don’t need to be Jaco or Jameson. You just need to be you.

 

[Jogobass]

Wait till you hear that you can play minor pentatonic on a major (dominant) blues. If you're playing a solo. You might be thinking, but the 3rd is supposed to not be flat. But it works. That's blues for ya.

 

[bholder]

Wait till you hear that you can play minor pentatonic on a major (dominant) blues. If you're playing a solo. You might be thinking, but the 3rd is supposed to not be flat. But it works. That's blues for ya.

I'm pretty well versed in basic classical theory, major / minor, doms, etc., and this still blows my mind just a wee little bit.

Then get into some other culture's musics and find out they've got several more selections between "major" and "minor", especially on the 3rds, 6ths, and 7ths. Ah-yup, there's more to it than just basic classical theory. Bends my brain in the good way.

 

[InhumanResource]

Not sure if this is where this question goes, but if its not I am sure the admin will move it.

I was just watching a blues bass video on Bass Buzz (caveat for the most part I am a self taught bass player}

The instructor was talking about a 12 bar blues progression and said the notes (keys) were all 7ths. G7 C7 and D7 (I, IV, V) I believe. He then went on to play a riff using a major pentatonic scale. To my understanding the major pentatonic scale doesn't use 7ths its R,2,3,5,6,O
if this is the case why would he use the termG7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

Any help is appreciated.

Important distinction to understand, they are “seven” chords, not sevenths (though each chord has a flat 7 chord tone).

You absolutely can play a flat 7 in your licks…and a whole lot more! Blues is pretty forgiving in terms of tonality, chord tones and non chord tones can all work depending on how they are used.

 

[BismarckHerring]

The instructor was talking about a 12 bar blues progression and said the notes (keys) were all 7ths. G7 C7 and D7 (I, IV, V) I believe.

It’s important to get the terminology right: these are chords, not notes or keys. The key is G. In the blues, you can use either a major or minor pentatonic scale (or blues scale) of the key over the whole progression. It’s not really something that music theory can explain (in my opinion, at least), it just how the blues works. Don’t overthink it, just use that knowledge and learn how to apply it.

 

[groooooove]

perfectly logical question.

just because the note is there does not mean you "must" target it, right?

this is more about the pentatonic scale than the 7ths. why use a pentatonic scale? well, it has limited notes and tends to sound good more or less 'no matter what' assuming a reasonable approach by the player.

it's as close to a one-size-fits-all idea that you can have in improvised music. you could absolutely start adding 7ths and other things and see how it's working.

 

[JimmyM]

Not only have I played a Dom 7th, I’ve followed it up with a maj 7th on my way to the octave!

 

[InhumanResource]

Not only have I played a Dom 7th, I’ve followed it up with a maj 7th on my way to the octave!

Scandalous!

 

[HolmeBass]

Not sure if this is where this question goes, but if its not I am sure the admin will move it.

I was just watching a blues bass video on Bass Buzz (caveat for the most part I am a self taught bass player}

The instructor was talking about a 12 bar blues progression and said the notes (keys) were all 7ths. G7 C7 and D7 (I, IV, V) I believe. He then went on to play a riff using a major pentatonic scale. To my understanding the major pentatonic scale doesn't use 7ths its R,2,3,5,6,O
if this is the case why would he use the termG7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

Any help is appreciated.

I think the important thing to take away is you don’t have to play every chord tone in a given chord - in fact you rarely want to.

The use of the 6th in the major pentatonic is fine on weak beats, I would not start w/ the 6th on the first beat of any measure.

A more complete palette of complimentary notes for dominant seventh chords is provided by the Mixolydian mode. It adds two notes to the major pentatonic scale: the 4 and the flat 7. Mixolydian is like the major scale, but the 7th degree is flatted.

 

[mambo4]

To my understanding the major pentatonic scale doesn't use 7ths its R,2,3,5,6,O
if this is the case why would he use the termG7,C7 and D7 if he's not using the 7ths

G7 C7 D7 refer to the chords
not the bass line

 

[DRut]

Thanks for all the responses I posted this last night before bed so I would wake up to responses and you all did not disapoint.

So to rehash what you all are saying, All chords in bass are 7's. And even though the chord is a 7 chord I can still use the pentatonic scale and only use 5 notes.

 

[singlemalt]

Pentatonics are blues magic. It’s worth diving in deep and really looking at how your favorite players, both bassist and other instruments, are using pentatonics to get what they are doing.

Think of it in layers. Roots. Triad chord tones, 1, 3, 5. (Got a flavor now! Major or minor) Extensions: the spice drawer. 7ths, 9ths, 10ths, 13ths.

First level, basic cooking. Safe in the kitchen. Big roots.

Triads, you can walk around a bit. Stay in key, outline the chord profession, alert to the changes. You still have the job.

Pentatonic, still staying in the safe zone. Still got the job.

Blues scale, check out my flat 5! Let me put some stank face on!

6, 7, 9, 10, . I’m gonna kill that keyboard player if he keeps walking in my sh…..

Full scales and modes. All these things overlay the previous in all positions of the fret board. More complexity, more choices. But not a requirement. But now you’re exploring. Starting to get side eye from the guys.

Full on walking and phrases with approach notes, tensions, soloing chops, you start listening to jazz. Jaco gets mentioned. The blues band gets another guy who’s not so busy. You don’t care.

A staple of the great blues guitarists, sax players, horns, and piano guys is the blending of major and minor pentatonics and blues scales. Once you really hear it, you’ll hear it everywhere. The third is switch hitting. The semi tone slides and slurs 2-3, 4-flat 5, 6-7. Bends. They know where they are and what they are trying to say.

 

[Quentin MCB]

Because the dominant chord is probably being played by the harmonic instrument in the band (guitar or keyboard), even if the bass doesn't outline the 7th