High end mic question...AMT S25B vs. DPA 4099B

Here's a good thread, basically the same question.

 

Gypsybass,
Both the DPA 4099 and the AMT SP25B do a remarkable job of capturing the acoustic timbre of a Double Bass. Since I have both mics, here's the short version. The AMT has a lot going for it as a live performance mic directly into a back line amplifier since it's pretty feedback resistant. It's also available with a tailpiece mount that makes it easy to mount on the instrument and position it where it sounds the best. If it has one downfall, it's that it will pick up other instruments in close proximity, off axis (right and left side) if they are loud i.e drums and monitors. The trade off is that it's sound is nice and warm especially in the bass and midrange.

The DPA 4099 has the best of axis rejection I've ever heard and for the most part eliminate all the of axis because of it's shotgun design, so it's better in live situations where you are in close proximity to other instruments. They have a new mount for the Double Bass that is easy to install and remove and gets almost as far as the AMT does. Essentially it's sound is very transparent and just reproduces the sound of the bass.
It will however feed back and may not work as well with back line amps. FOH though, it's the best mic I've ever used for sending a signal to the mains, my personal experience is that it also works with my amp, the Walter Woods Ultra and EA VL 208 cabinets.

Ric

 

Had both, settled on a Beyer M88, which I use for other applications (kick drum, voice, etc)

Both are great mics. This kinda thing is pretty subjective . . .

Ask around some folks whose ears you trust.

 

I used to have an AMT. I've been using a Beyer M88 TG for a while now. And I just got the DPA 4099. I ran all of them into my amp on most gigs, not a PA.

IME, the AMT does get a realistic sound like Ric said. But for me, it produced the least useable volume before it would squeal through my amp w/ mic feedback.

On the plus side, the gooseneck on the AMT gives you lots of mounting options to find the sweet spot w/ your bass. And if you are running it into a PA, it can sound great.

I basically achieved the same ability to move the mic around and I got more gain before feedback and much less bleed with the Beyer M88 on an H-clamp. (Thanks larry, and Vunz.) Been using that for several years. I blend with a pickup if needed.

I have only used the DPA 4099 on gigs a few times so far. It makes a real good sound, and I think it can go even louder before feeding back, is "voiced" quite well for DB, and is even less sensitive to bleed. I suspect once I get comfortable with it, it may replace the Beyer as my #1 mic.

 

I love using the AMT and I've had nothing but compliments on the sound. I'm not currently playing with drums or amps on stage so the AMT is really shining at the moment. Sound guys seem to really like just handing me a balanced line to the board, no fuss, no muss.
I have not used the DPA.
-J

 

The DPA's resistance to feedback will be greatly improved by inserting a Headway preamp into the chain. That said, mics are most successful going through front of house - IM(strong)O.

 

After playing the DPA 4099 on several gigs, I've noticed it has the ability to get a detailed sound, that sets itself off against all the other instruments in the mix, and still sounds like the bass. As far as the gain before feedback goes, I've also noticed that it seems louder into my Headway EDB-1 through the Walter Woods and the EA VL 208.

The DPA Double Bass mount is certainly adequate, I just wish the goose kneck was a few inches longer.

Seems like the more I work with this mic the more comfortable and easy it is to use. Now I just have to go with a pickup that matches it better than the Realist does. When you get that kind of clarity and tone from the mic it makes you want a pickup that will do much the same thing.

Ric

 

Roger, or anyone, do you think that would be true for any mic pre in front of your amp? Like say a Grace m101, or a FMR RNP?

I've tried using my D-TAR Solstice as mic pre in this manner in front of my Focus, and I did not notice any more appreciable volume before the mic would squeal w/ feedback. If I cut the mid EQ on the Solstice, I could get more volume, but I did not like what that did to the tone.

 

Bolo
My only experience is with the Headway so I'm not sure whether any other pre would do the job just as well. I used the Headway's notch filter to dial out the squeal. I found that the Underwood gives a nice clear underpin to the mic sound and of course the Headway mixes them nicely. I'm not completely won over by this particular pre but in this situation it does very well. The 18v phantom seems OK.

 

Bolo,
Well, based on what little experience I have with mic pre amps, and what others have said on TB I think that the Headway does a pretty fair job, considering that it's $299.00 and has all the bells and whistles. It's also very compact and mounts on a mic stand. The only thing I wish it had was a separate EQ for each channel. It appreciably increases the mic and pickup gain, so I send it's signal to the power section of the Walter Woods. Granted It's not an Avalon, but it's a lot easier to carry around. Just my take though.


Ric

Ric

 

gypsy, if you are looking to purchase, then obviously price is one factor among many. And how much weight you give that factor will of course vary too for each person and each situation.

But FWIW, here is an AMT for sale for $300.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=684512

chrisbudhan, consider this a bump I reckon. Been to PEI too, once. Enjoyed it.

 

Steve, Have you seen these?

http://blacklionaudio.com/content.php?p=1&gclid=CJufmqvxyaMCFc9N5Qodg1kMvQ

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-GOA-PRE73-LIST

 

Since the DPA 4099 was introduced and people started raving about it, it seems that the used AMT market has done a little dip price wise. Now is an excellent time to get one at a very reasonable price, and it's a great mic as well.

Ric

 

Brian, yeah I do recall that you may have posted something about these before. I have been mulling over mic preamps for a while, wondering basically if they would help me get more useable volume before feedback thru my amp, without making any drastic EQ changes. I have not tried any yet, except my old D-TAR Solstice, which as I said did not do what I had hoped in that regard.

I understand they will boost the signal level. So to get the same relative volume, the master on my amp would probably be lower.

But do they allow for more volume before the mic squeals w/ feedback? Or is it just physics that when the miked signal (with or without a pre) hits a certain decibel level, and you are certain distance from the speaker, it's gonna squeal?

 

I would think a good pre would increase gain before feedback somewhat. Not sure how much, though. I'm sure it would improve response for recording and/or live applications where the mic signal is going to the FOH system, which is what I really want the DPA for. I love sound I get in a good room or theater that has good acoustics when I use the p/u sound alone thru the amp on stage and a good mic signal to the FOH. The audience gets primarily the mic sound, but also some of the p/u sound from the stage. IMO this way of blending sounds best and I still can hear myself on stage w/o fear of feedback. Any mic will squeal thru an amp especially while on the stage or floor at a level that competes w/ a powerful drummer of loud horns, guitars etc. Of course while blending mic & p/u thru an amp raising it off the floor helps feedback some, but I think smaller speakers can sound anemic and lacking in testicular fortitude this way.

Bri

 

Thanks. I guess I will just have to try some mic preamps and see.

Yeah, this is my basic setup (sans PA). Wizzy M-line or VL-208 cab up on a stand, mic and p/u blended thru the Focus. The mic just adds so much to the pickup sound that is pleasing to me. I want more of it!

 

+ 1 (fwiw)