High Gain Basses vs. Pedals

[alex1fly]

Consider lowering your pickups as another option for reducing output

Or if you don't want to adjust on your bass, toss a comp/limiter at the beginning of your chain

Personally I'd just adjust my bass volume. Pretty easy but hey

 

[ctmullins]

Do your Spectors and Warwicks have volume knobs?

 

[vvvmmm]

On the uchoob there's a J. Mascis vid, or I just saw them two English guys talking about the Tiny Terrror:

use a clean drive (or any drive at all) that allows you to be less than unity, and run that before whatever is distorting.

Yer using it as an attenuator, as said above, with the the added benefit of color and/or dirt, if you want. Mascis runs a Muff wide open, and controls it with a Zvex Double-Rock or a Rangemaster-type; the English guys were using a drive pedal to set a lower, less distorted amp sound with the amp turned up and the drive pedal lowering the input level.

An LS-2 or similar FX-loop kinda pedal might be useful.

 

[sunbeast]

Yep. Its that warm; tubey soft clip that is focused right around 250hz that I cant let go.

That makes sense- part of my attraction to old EMG active pickups was also being able to clip them a bit at 9V for some compression and saturation. If you are pushing the onboard preamp hard enough to clip its amplification stages then it is not surprising that you would also be clipping other pedals later in the signal chain!

That Strymon pedal should work fine for you as they are able to be set for line-level sources.

 

[Lardass5000]

Do your Spectors and Warwicks have volume knobs?

 

[ctmullins]

View attachment 4991565

That is exactly how it works. Especially if your onboard electronics are active (buffered).

 

[sunbeast]

That is exactly how it works. Especially if your onboard electronics are active (buffered).

It sounds like part of the tone he likes is the light clipping of the internal preamp in this case. Also not sure if these particular instruments have active pickups, but if not then the volume controls may come pre-buffer and affect the tone

 

[Ric5]

It seems like all my basses are too hot to use effect pedals without distorting them.
I don't want to have to trim my gain back any more than already is. I found a cool MXR phaser that sounded really great but might as well be a fuzz box when hooked to Spectors or Warwicks. I'm not in love with effects anyway but would like to be able to use something I find if I choose. Only things that don't fuzz out are H9 and Effectrode tube compressor. I even tried putting phaser in the fx loop of my GK; no matter.

I play 99% w/o fx anyway. Might as well ride it on in, huh?
Is there no hope?

put an EQ pedal in front between the bass and the amp .... A good eq pedal will not only adjust frequencies, but it will also have a master volume control.

Also a EQ pedal can be used on a passive bass to be used to eq it but it can also become an overdrive.

 

[ctmullins]

It sounds like part of the tone he likes is the light clipping of the internal preamp in this case. Also not sure if these particular instruments have active pickups, but if not then the volume controls may come pre-buffer and affect the tone

I will admit to rather hastily skimming through the thread before issuing my flippant reply.

But my flippancy is based upon a basic and obvious truth: The sole purpose of the volume knob is to reduce the output, a fact which seems to be lost on quite a lot of forumites.

And your point about a passive volume pre-buffer is of course entirely correct.

Anyway, being highly opinionated and extremely self-assured, I am skeptical of the claim that the magic tone comes from running the internal preamp at a very specific signal level.

 

[superheavyfunk]

It seems like all my basses are too hot to use effect pedals without distorting them.
I don't want to have to trim my gain back any more than already is. I found a cool MXR phaser that sounded really great but might as well be a fuzz box when hooked to Spectors or Warwicks. I'm not in love with effects anyway but would like to be able to use something I find if I choose. Only things that don't fuzz out are H9 and Effectrode tube compressor. I even tried putting phaser in the fx loop of my GK; no matter.

I play 99% w/o fx anyway. Might as well ride it on in, huh?
Is there no hope?

While I don’t have this problem with my Warwick, I did have this issue with my Charvel. I opened it up and discovered that there was a little gain trimmer on the preamp that I could turn with a Phillips head screwdriver. I turned it down a bit and my pedals played a lot nicer with the bass! Have a look inside your bass… maybe there’s something similar!

 

[sunbeast]

I will admit to rather hastily skimming through the thread before issuing my flippant reply.

But my flippancy is based upon a basic and obvious truth: The sole purpose of the volume knob is to reduce the output, a fact which seems to be lost on quite a lot of forumites.

And your point about a passive volume pre-buffer is of course entirely correct.

Anyway, being highly opinionated and extremely self-assured, I am skeptical of the claim that the magic tone comes from running the internal preamp at a very specific signal level.

I am also skeptical by nature, but have had similar experiences with some actives so also believe it is quite possible! Certainly part of the tone of the older-era EMG actives that are (or have been) used in some Spectors is due to some internal clipping at 9V (though that is the pickups vs the preamp so the volume controls wouldn't play a part)- I'd imagine if his bass has EMG actives into a preamp run at 9V then clipping at the preamp would be entirely possible. I've never owned a Spector myself (only played a few in stores over the years) so have no direct experience to add.

The majority of basses I've owned with active preamps in the past have had passive pickups and had both Blend and Volume controls before the preamp, which has always bothered me because it makes the Volume control change the tone of the bass (though is generally the easiest implementation if you are going to have an active/passive switch option). The best active preamp setup in my opinion is to have either a buffered blend and a volume control that comes post-preamp and has no effect on tone, but this makes implementing a full passive option much trickier.

Depending on how the OP's basses are currently setup, it would be possible to modify them by moving the volume controls after the internal preamps that should retain the tone he likes while also allowing him to attenuate the output volume at the bass. It sounds like he is already in the market for different pedal options though, so may as well just grab pedals that won't have issues with the high output of his instruments. Strymon pedals all accept line-level inputs so shouldn't break a sweat, pedals like the MXR he was using were really designed for passive instruments so not surprising they didn't fare as well.

 

[Lardass5000]

I am skeptical of the claim that the magic tone comes from running the internal preamp at a very specific signal level.

That is where the magic tone comes from.

 

[pglaser01]

Apologies if you covered it but I didn’t initially see anyone ask.

I believe you mention you were going back through f/x loop of your GK or was that ONLY when you tried putting a phaser through it?

 

[Lardass5000]

Apologies if you covered it but I didn’t initially see anyone ask.

I believe you mention you were going back through f/x loop of your GK or was that ONLY when you tried putting a phaser through it?

I tried placing an MXR Phaser in the fx loop to see if there may be less distortion that way. But no. Currently, I have my Effectrode compressor between my bass and my amp. If I am going to use the H9 (rarely) or anything else, I place it in the loop.

 

[Fuzzbass]

I empathize: I have a couple of basses that have been too hot for certain pedals.

Check out the Damnation Audio MBD1 or MBD2, which were designed to handle hot active basses. My Darkglass and Tech21 pedals also handle my hottest bass.

Personally I'd just adjust my bass volume. Pretty easy but hey

To me it's far easier to keep normal volume at max, and roll back on the (rare) occasions where I need to be quieter. Max means I don't have to worry about a vague in-between setting. It's also harder (50% harder ) to accidentally bump a maxed knob out of position. Finally, as mentioned by others, rolling back volume can also change tone on some basses.

Knobs with indicator lines make in-between placement somewhat less of a concern, but I prefer vintage-style metal knobs with no indicator. Also, I keep at least a half-dozen basses in rotation. I really don't want to memorize the optimum volume setting for each bass. I'd rather adjust the pedal to match the bass: pedal knobs typically have indicators.

Mainly speaking for myself, but the OP stated reasons for not messing with volume.

 

[alex1fly]

I empathize: I have a couple of basses that have been too hot for certain pedals.

Check out the Damnation Audio MBD1 or MBD2, which were designed to handle hot active basses. My Darkglass and Tech21 pedals also handle my hottest bass.




To me it's far easier to keep normal volume at max, and roll back on the (rare) occasions where I need to be quieter. Max means I don't have to worry about a vague in-between setting. It's also harder (50% harder ) to accidentally bump a maxed knob out of position. Finally, as mentioned by others, rolling back volume can also change tone on some basses.

Knobs with indicator lines make in-between placement somewhat less of a concern, but I prefer vintage-style metal knobs with no indicator. Also, I keep at least a half-dozen basses in rotation. I really don't want to memorize the optimum volume setting for each bass. I'd rather adjust the pedal to match the bass: pedal knobs typically have indicators.

Mainly speaking for myself, but the OP stated reasons for not messing with volume.

Just goes to show how personal it all is right? That's the beauty of music. I ride my volume knob a lot on both bass and guitar, this lets me be responsive to the music and have control over the overall dynamics. The different tones that come from this technique are pretty useful on guitar - you can make humbuckers sound thin like single coils and vice versa. And you can swap a few wires to emphasize or minimize the tonal change that comes from volume knob changes (50s, treble bleed, modern).

 

[Fuzzbass]

Just goes to show how personal it all is right? That's the beauty of music. I ride my volume knob a lot on both bass and guitar, this lets me be responsive to the music and have control over the overall dynamics. The different tones that come from this technique are pretty useful on guitar - you can make humbuckers sound thin like single coils and vice versa. And you can swap a few wires to emphasize or minimize the tonal change that comes from volume knob changes (50s, treble bleed, modern).

Absolutely. Makes total sense on guitar, and I've known a few bassists who roll back the volume on their passive basses because it warms up the tone (usually done in conjunction with rolling back tone).

For gigging I tend to be set-it-and-forget-it, so it's more practical for me to max volume and only bring it down for ballads or whatever.

 

[HelpImaRock]

Yep. Its that warm; tubey soft clip that is focused right around 250hz that I cant let go.

The pedals are distorting because you're sending too hot of a signal. I understand you like the clipping from the onboard preamp. But unless you find a way to attenuate the signal, you'll continue to get nasty distortion from the pedals as they're overloaded. I suggest an active volume pedal to reduce the overall volume of the signal chain. It won't load your signal like a passive one and will give you more travel in your settings than a clean boost pedal.

 

[Lardass5000]

The pedals are distorting because you're sending too hot of a signal. I understand you like the clipping from the onboard preamp. But unless you find a way to attenuate the signal, you'll continue to get nasty distortion from the pedals as they're overloaded. I suggest an active volume pedal to reduce the overall volume of the signal chain. It won't load your signal like a passive one and will give you more travel in your settings than a clean boost pedal.

Thank you.

 

[satantango]

I'm going to add to the people saying look into a new compressor. My spector is so hot that it sounds like total garbage through a lot of my gear; I got a SA Atlas recently and it has turned that thing into a whole new instrument for me. Doesn't suck tone, has built in HPF/LPF, accepts really hot signals and like any compressor can be used as an attenuator via just turning down the output. I have a NS Dimension with fishman fluences- that thing basically spits out full frequency at high volume and needs external shaping.