• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

High Pass Filter (HPF) and Low Pass Filter (LPF) Mega Thread

I am generally not a fan of very steep slopes (eg. 48dB/octave) because (at least in the analog world of multiple feedback filters) the component tolerances tend to skew the results farther and farther away from the ideal. There are also possible problems with filter ringing (CCV filters) and under some filter topologies, instability.

I have found that in general, the point of diminishing returns is 24dB/octave. When you calculate power loss below the knee frequency, the squared factor works in your favor.

Interesting, so basically a cheap, analog filter resonates at extreme settings. This makes sense as to why this slope isn't commonly found in most standard analog crossovers. Do you find this less common in the digital designs which incorporate this as a standard setting? Do you find it a more prominent issue in the upper frequencies (rarely, if ever do you see this extreme a slope used in low pass or crossover points other than high pass). I'm wondering if that resonant decay from 48db to brick wall is why, with some systems, the extreme high pass results in an increased sense of "punch", or tightness, for lack of a better terminology. I also wonder what the actual decay rate of the resonance is, but am guessing that depends on the filter quality.
 
With analog filters, the component tolerances become quite critical with steep slopes and especially with higher Q's. Then there's the likelihood of increased noise floor.

With digital filters, component tolerance doesn't apply, nor does the noise floor (for the most part).
 
Cool, so the tightening and increased punch mentioned is just due to maximizing the efficiency at the port tuning and/ or ideal frequency use of the particular enclosure, with no negative side effects for the extreme slopes mentioned if using the now common digital high pass found in most DSP.
 
Cool, so the tightening and increased punch mentioned is just due to maximizing the efficiency at the port tuning and/ or ideal frequency use of the particular enclosure, with no negative side effects for the extreme slopes mentioned if using the now common digital high pass found in most DSP.

IME and IMO digital filters are also not all created equal, so I'd say it just depends.

In any case, as I've said upthread at least a couple of times, in my own designs I often embrace the "tone control" ramifications of using variable HPFs. I love control interactivity, but certainly many people don't necessarily share in that.
Yel_wink.gif
 
Of course, digital filters cost more to implement. Corners cut on the input and output can affect the quality of the sound. Analog can cost less. High end implementations that have selected components and are hand tuned are expensive but sound very good.

Always tradeoffs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: D.A.R.K.
I wouldn't say there aren't side effects of very high slopes, it's a different tool that might not be a good choice for the tonal aspects alone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: D.A.R.K.
I am using a VONG Filter provided by a small german company Schalltechnik 04. The company is run by the owner, Julian Pöhler and he is delivering the VONG Filter as a complete set of components, PCB, housing (complete drilled and printed). You need to populate and solder the PCB and complete the final assembly (no mechanical housing work and print needed).

Here are the specs:
  • adjustable HighPass filter (30-140Hz)
  • 4th order filter -> -24dB/Oct.
  • 12dB/Oct. fixed at 30Hz
  • 12dB/Oct. adjustable
  • adjustable low-pass filter (.250-22kHz)
  • Filter 2nd order
  • 12dB/Oct. adjustable
  • DI-out
  • with ground lift switch
  • adjustable boost (up to +16dB) for the jack output
  • Polarity switch (180° phase) for the jack output
  • The footswitch allows for three configurations:
    • LowPass filter: ON/OFF
    • Volume potentiometer (boost): ON/OFF
    • Volume potentiometer (boost) and low-pass filter: ON/OFF
  • input impedance 10MOhms (!)
  • power supply either 9Volts battery or external supply

vong-filterung-077.jpg


Edit: link changed to english language pages
 
Last edited:
In an effort to keep it small and simple, I finally just ordered the always-on Broughton HPF.

I should be getting my new-to-me SVT-CL back from Mad Science Works any day now (cap job and clean bill of health). Based on your collective input on the subject the HPF should really help that rig shine with my also-new-to-me 610 AV (that I'll be picking up any day now as well).

I'll report back when I run it all together.
 
In an effort to keep it small and simple, I finally just ordered the always-on Broughton HPF.

I should be getting my new-to-me SVT-CL back from Mad Science Works any day now (cap job and clean bill of health). Based on your collective input on the subject the HPF should really help that rig shine with my also-new-to-me 610 AV (that I'll be picking up any day now as well).

I'll report back when I run it all together.
FYI, The Bro AO HPF also requires a power supply.
I picked up a One Spot from Amazon. The HPF works wonders.

Your rig will kill small birds and flying insects. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: two fingers
I am using a VONG Filter provided by a small german company Schalltechnik 04. The company is run by the owner, Julian Pöhler and he is delivering the VONG Filter as a complete set of components, PCB, housing (complete drilled and printed). You need to populate and solder the PCB and complete the final assembly (no mechanical housing work and print needed).

Here are the specs:
  • adjustable HighPass filter (30-140Hz)
  • 4th order filter -> -24dB/Oct.
  • 12dB/Oct. fixed at 30Hz
  • 12dB/Oct. adjustable
  • adjustable low-pass filter (.250-22kHz)
  • Filter 2nd order
  • 12dB/Oct. adjustable
  • DI-out
  • with ground lift switch
  • adjustable boost (up to +16dB) for the jack output
  • Polarity switch (180° phase) for the jack output
  • The footswitch allows for three configurations:
    • LowPass filter: ON/OFF
    • Volume potentiometer (boost): ON/OFF
    • Volume potentiometer (boost) and low-pass filter: ON/OFF
  • input impedance 10MOhms (!)
  • power supply either 9Volts battery or external supply

View attachment 3110165
What is this thing? I like it
 
I am using a VONG Filter provided by a small german company Schalltechnik 04. The company is run by the owner, Julian Pöhler and he is delivering the VONG Filter as a complete set of components, PCB, housing (complete drilled and printed). You need to populate and solder the PCB and complete the final assembly (no mechanical housing work and print needed).

Here are the specs:
  • adjustable HighPass filter (30-140Hz)
  • 4th order filter -> -24dB/Oct.
  • 12dB/Oct. fixed at 30Hz
  • 12dB/Oct. adjustable
  • adjustable low-pass filter (.250-22kHz)
  • Filter 2nd order
  • 12dB/Oct. adjustable
  • DI-out
  • with ground lift switch
  • adjustable boost (up to +16dB) for the jack output
  • Polarity switch (180° phase) for the jack output
  • The footswitch allows for three configurations:
    • LowPass filter: ON/OFF
    • Volume potentiometer (boost): ON/OFF
    • Volume potentiometer (boost) and low-pass filter: ON/OFF
  • input impedance 10MOhms (!)
  • power supply either 9Volts battery or external supply

View attachment 3110165
Cool! The phase, volume and fixed adjustable HPF are similar to fdeck's unit.

For DIYrs, it might make sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rock Salad
In an effort to keep it small and simple, I finally just ordered the always-on Broughton HPF.

I should be getting my new-to-me SVT-CL back from Mad Science Works any day now (cap job and clean bill of health). Based on your collective input on the subject the HPF should really help that rig shine with my also-new-to-me 610 AV (that I'll be picking up any day now as well).

I'll report back when I run it all together.

Please do, with photos & sound bytes!
 
  • Like
Reactions: two fingers
In an effort to keep it small and simple, I finally just ordered the always-on Broughton HPF.

I should be getting my new-to-me SVT-CL back from Mad Science Works any day now (cap job and clean bill of health). Based on your collective input on the subject the HPF should really help that rig shine with my also-new-to-me 610 AV (that I'll be picking up any day now as well).

I'll report back when I run it all together.
Is the DI pre or post HPF/LPF?
 
What is this thing? I like it
Please check the describtion in my last post. It's an adjustable 12/24 dB/Oct. HPF which is activated by the little switch on the right. The foot switch activates an adjustable 12 dB/Oct. LPF incl. an volume compensation up to +16dB. Here aresome frequence plots (copied from Schalltechnik 04):

Bypass:
vong-flat-all-off.png


LPF=ON@22kHz:
vong-flat-lpf@22k.png


HPF=ON@30Hz:
vong-flat-hpf@30.png


HPF=ON@94Hz (12o’clock):
vong-flat-hpf@middle.png


HPF=ON@140Hz:
vong-flat-hpf@140.png


You may contact Julian via his contact page. I guess he will also ship to the US.

Note: I am not endorsing these parts do not have any commercial relationship wth Julian. I just like this VONG filter which is absolutely noise free and perfectly works with my rig: Stingrax 5 classic - Glockenklang blue rock - FMC 1153 HR

Edit: link changed to english language pages
 
Last edited:
Semi related:
I tried to ask this in "pickups" and also in "amps"
What causes some pickups to "fart out" when overplayed/over accented? Kind of like when playing with strings super super de-tuned like when changing strings. (Pffr-note)
"Pickups" forum was no help.
"Amps" forum suggested possible overload of pre amp. Tried hpf as a solve for pre amp overload, but that wasn't it either it seems.
I realise this can be solved through finesse in technique, but still curious what causes this phenomena mechanicaly/electronically.