Have you read my post, just before yours?
There are reasons for the start of the chain especially for a HPF, a LPF IMO sit better at end (before spacial effects such as reverb or delay). Incidentally, many love the HPF before a compressor.
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Have you read my post, just before yours?
There are reasons for the start of the chain especially for a HPF, a LPF IMO sit better at end (before spacial effects such as reverb or delay). Incidentally, many love the HPF before a compressor.
On page 35 of this thread I wrote about using a crossover ( Behringer CX-2310 in mono mode) as a HPF/LPF.
High Pass Filter (HPF) and Low Pass Filter (LPF) Mega Thread
I am wondering if somebody else uses a crossover as HPF/LPF and if so, what are your experiences?
Last week I have been swapping tubes in a Bugera 1960 to make it more useable for bass.
I've got it at a point where only the phase inverter tube (PI) and/or power tubes distort at a certain volume/level.
To see if I could make the Bugera sound better at a higher volume level I tried the Behringer CX-2310 as HPF/LPF. I used the crossover a little bit different as described on page 35. I now directly plug my passive bass into the crossover and the output of crossover directly in the input of the (pre)amp.
Without the HPF and playing an A or B (pluck hard near the neck) on the E-string caused the PI and/or power tubes of the amp to distort/fart out at high volume level.
With the HPF on (44Hz) the amp didn't do that. So obviously an improvement in sound! I could still make the amp distort/overdrive when needed/wanted, I just had to turn up the volume.
Here is a picture of the settings on the crossover:
When you zoom in you can see the LPF is set at 7kHz, that is just fine for slapping.
High Pass Filter (HPF) and Low Pass Filter (LPF) Mega Thread
I am wondering if somebody else uses a crossover as HPF/LPF and if so, what are your experiences?
Last week I have been swapping tubes in a Bugera 1960 to make it more useable for bass.
I've got it at a point where only the phase inverter tube (PI) and/or power tubes distort at a certain volume/level.
To see if I could make the Bugera sound better at a higher volume level I tried the Behringer CX-2310 as HPF/LPF. I used the crossover a little bit different as described on page 35. I now directly plug my passive bass into the crossover and the output of crossover directly in the input of the (pre)amp.
Without the HPF and playing an A or B (pluck hard near the neck) on the E-string caused the PI and/or power tubes of the amp to distort/fart out at high volume level.
With the HPF on (44Hz) the amp didn't do that. So obviously an improvement in sound! I could still make the amp distort/overdrive when needed/wanted, I just had to turn up the volume.
Here is a picture of the settings on the crossover:
When you zoom in you can see the LPF is set at 7kHz, that is just fine for slapping.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,655
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Thanks, but what would be the effect of this?
Edit: I tried the crossover in the effect loop again.
Bass directly in crossover: loss of high frequencies and some loss in gain.
Loss in gain can be compensated with gain knobs. Loss of high frequencies could be not such a bad thing if you want some LPF anyway.
But I must admit it works better in the effect loop.
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,655
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Thanks, but what would be the effect of this?
Edit: I tried the crossover in the effect loop again.
Bass directly in crossover: loss of high frequencies and some loss in gain.
Loss in gain can be compensated with gain knobs. Loss of high frequencies could be not such a bad thing if you want some LPF anyway.
But I must admit it works better in the effect loop.
The low input impedance loads the pickups which decreases sustain as well as definition and higher frequencies.
Thank you!
I already hoped you would answer my question so that not only I but also people reading this (thread) can learn.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,963
- 5
- 220,655
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
When a pickup is severely loaded, it extracts more energy from the string vibrating within the pickup's magnetic field. The more energy that's extracted, the less is left to continue the resonance. It's one of the terms that affects the damping of the string's oscillatory movement too much and the instrument will feel dead, too little and the instrument may feel too bloomy or resonant.
Quick question about the Broughton HPF/LPF. I see you can run it at 9-24 volts with the higher voltage giving you more “headroom” but I don’t know what that means when you’re talking about a pedal. Wondering if it’s worth it to run a separate power source for just the one pedal as opposed to daisy chaining it.
If you read through the Broughton thread, Josh has said it runs as designed with 9 volts.
It means nothing but it will run with voltages up to 24. 9 is fine.
It means you can run a hotter signal into it without distorting. But like has been said, I’m 99% sure that even at 9 volts you can run line level into it without a problem.
@M-rek :
Here in Germany there‘s a guy from the (also German) Bassic forum who developed the Vong-Filter HPF/LPF pedal. He offers them as DIY kit.
VONG-Filterung – Schalltechnik_04
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A report of an experiment.
Last night I had the opportunity to test my HPF/LPF (Behringer crossover CX2310) in a band setting.
I took the crossover, a cab and an amp to our practice room.
The cab was an Ampeg SVT48HE that has four 8 inch speakers and can be boomy in certain rooms.
The amp was a Bugera 1960 with the old school tone stack (Fender/Marshall), swapped the preamp tubes to reduce gain. Tone stack settings: Bass 2, Mid 8, Treble 2.
I put the crossover in the effects loop of the amp.
The crossover was switched to mono (mode) and then it has 3 output channels, low, mid and high.
First I used the low output to connect to the return of the effects loop.
That gave me a HPF fixed at 25Hz 12dB/oct.
So we started to play and practice the songs we normally play.
The cab was on casters on the floor. I was standing just in front of the cab.
Result:
In general the sound was warm but not articulated. I could “feel” the bass.
But I couldn’t hear well what I was playing.
Fellow bandmembers couldn’t hear well what I was playing. The guitarist said he felt a constant pressure on his ears.
What I heard was what I would describe as a constant humming/buzzing/zooming sound (maybe 40 till 80 Hz?) that gives the impression that you “feel” the bass but that masked the mids.
Sometimes I could hear no difference in sound between neck pickup, bridge pickup or both on.
Turning the bass down to 0 and mids to 10 on the amp gave some improvement but not enough.
Walking away from the cab say, 2 meters in front, didn't help.
But the speakers were protected by the 25Hz HPF.
After the break I used the mid output to connect to the return of the effects loop.
That gave me a fixed HPF at 25Hz and a variable HPF starting at 44Hz 24dB/oct.
I set the variable HPF so that the sound wouldn’t have that humming/buzzing. That was at about 58Hz.
Result:
No more hum/zoom/buzz-sound.
More mids.
I could hear what I was playing and my bandmembers could hear what I was playing.
I could hear the difference in sound between pickups.
I couldn’t “feel” the bass as much, but that was not a bad thing.
The difference was significant, maybe because the choice of the amp and cab in this experiment.
LPF:
I could also use the crossover frequency between mid and high as a LPF. When set at about 3.5kHz you can emulate a 15 inch speaker that has an upper limit of 3.5kHz.
Conclusion :
Without the HPF I was not able to dial in a good sound with the combination of this amp and cab where I could hear my self and my bandmembers could hear me . With the HPF set at about 58Hz I could dial in a good sound.
With the crossover as a HPF/LPF in the effects loop of an amp I can get good results so for me there is no need (yet) for me to buy a separate HPF-stompbox.
So that got me thinking when can I use or need a HPF with amps and cabs that I have?
That lead me to the following table:
Noted that the Fender Rumble 200 and Genz Benz GBE750 already have a HPF onboard.
Last night I had the opportunity to test my HPF/LPF (Behringer crossover CX2310) in a band setting.
I took the crossover, a cab and an amp to our practice room.
The cab was an Ampeg SVT48HE that has four 8 inch speakers and can be boomy in certain rooms.
The amp was a Bugera 1960 with the old school tone stack (Fender/Marshall), swapped the preamp tubes to reduce gain. Tone stack settings: Bass 2, Mid 8, Treble 2.
I put the crossover in the effects loop of the amp.
The crossover was switched to mono (mode) and then it has 3 output channels, low, mid and high.
First I used the low output to connect to the return of the effects loop.
That gave me a HPF fixed at 25Hz 12dB/oct.
So we started to play and practice the songs we normally play.
The cab was on casters on the floor. I was standing just in front of the cab.
Result:
In general the sound was warm but not articulated. I could “feel” the bass.
But I couldn’t hear well what I was playing.
Fellow bandmembers couldn’t hear well what I was playing. The guitarist said he felt a constant pressure on his ears.
What I heard was what I would describe as a constant humming/buzzing/zooming sound (maybe 40 till 80 Hz?) that gives the impression that you “feel” the bass but that masked the mids.
Sometimes I could hear no difference in sound between neck pickup, bridge pickup or both on.
Turning the bass down to 0 and mids to 10 on the amp gave some improvement but not enough.
Walking away from the cab say, 2 meters in front, didn't help.
But the speakers were protected by the 25Hz HPF.
After the break I used the mid output to connect to the return of the effects loop.
That gave me a fixed HPF at 25Hz and a variable HPF starting at 44Hz 24dB/oct.
I set the variable HPF so that the sound wouldn’t have that humming/buzzing. That was at about 58Hz.
Result:
No more hum/zoom/buzz-sound.
More mids.
I could hear what I was playing and my bandmembers could hear what I was playing.
I could hear the difference in sound between pickups.
I couldn’t “feel” the bass as much, but that was not a bad thing.
The difference was significant, maybe because the choice of the amp and cab in this experiment.
LPF:
I could also use the crossover frequency between mid and high as a LPF. When set at about 3.5kHz you can emulate a 15 inch speaker that has an upper limit of 3.5kHz.
Conclusion :
Without the HPF I was not able to dial in a good sound with the combination of this amp and cab where I could hear my self and my bandmembers could hear me . With the HPF set at about 58Hz I could dial in a good sound.
With the crossover as a HPF/LPF in the effects loop of an amp I can get good results so for me there is no need (yet) for me to buy a separate HPF-stompbox.
So that got me thinking when can I use or need a HPF with amps and cabs that I have?
That lead me to the following table:
Noted that the Fender Rumble 200 and Genz Benz GBE750 already have a HPF onboard.
Either you don't understand your crossover too well or you don't describe what you did very well. As it reads your low output would have been missing all the mids.
To use a crossover as a HPF you send the high side of the crossover to your amp.
A rack 3 way typically splits out low mid and high ranges. You would either set the lower cross to where you want the HPF and set the mid way into oblivion using the mid output or set the mid at the HPF and use the highs.
On this crossover you can set the crossover frequency between low and mid at 9.3kHz.
Odd one. Even so you would be relying on some fixed HPF inside if you were sending the low output from it.
Yes you are correct, just a 25Hz low cut.
So the low output is not good if you want to use this crossover as a HPF.
For HPF/LPF just use the mid output of this crossover.
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@SOUTH PAW asks:
So, after reading through recent threads on the subject, I have gone from a casual interest in buying a hpf ( Broughton ) to a real GAS buildup for one.
The only thing in my understanding ( or lack of ) that I want to be clearer or cleared up first is, in order for it to fully have control over the low frequencies it's set to high pass, say for example, with a pedal board in front of a bass amp, wouldn't it have to be after everything in the signal chain?
Even the preamp in the bass amp itself? .....I ask, because, a few times in one of the threads, it was mentioned to place it first in the chain, but was never elaborated on.
That got me wondering what I'm missing?
Thanks, SP
And started a thread: Question about understanding / using a High Pass Filter
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@CyberSnyder:
My opinion, if you're using one HPF, like most people, put it at the end or near the end - possibly the compressor after the HPF. What you really care about are the lowend thumps or "mud" due to the room going through the speakers.
Some effects will benefit from a HPF, some won't.
If you run a huge pedalboard, maybe it's worthwhile but for me, Ill happily just run a HPF at the end and just clean up what's going out to the amp / house.
On some of my HX Stomp patches, I may employ a HPF earlier in the chain for certain effects.
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