Question about understanding / using a High Pass Filter

[Downunderwonder]

Apply where you think it will work best with your newfound knowledge. All will be well.

 

[40Hz]

So anything but a singular use, but seems like a single tool for any situation.

Pretty much. Like any good tool, it does one thing extremely well. A HPF is seldom used as an "effect" in the usual sense of the word. It fits into that category of gear I think of as "signal shapers" which are geared more towards sonic remediation rather than enhancement.

As far as any situation, that depends on whether you actually want or need what a HPF does. Like the various flavors of compressor pedals, these are all useful tools. But they're not necessarily something you would want to keep "always on."

So single tool? Yes.

For any situation? Depends.

 

[Wasnex]

I probably have, ( thanks TB for informing me beyond my intelligence ) but by having thought about it, you were able to give a simple summary of what to do.

IMHO you are not overthinking so much as over worrying. You will learn more if you experiment. Try the HPF in different places and see how the performance changes. Depending upon your signal path and gain staging, you may or may not notice much difference.

 

[SOUTH PAW]

IMHO you are not overthinking so much as over worrying. You will learn more if you experiment. Try the HPF in different places and see how the performance changes. Depending upon your signal path and gain staging, you may or may not notice much difference.

Yes, trying it will definitely settle any worries and knowing it's true potential. The main reason to concern myself, not mentioned before, was to be certain enough to purchase two of them at the same time, paying once for shipping. Otherwise I probably would have bought one to check out, in place of doing as much research and posting

 

[Thumpin6string]

I used to use my Fdeck3 in the effects loop, but now I prefer to run bass>HPF>Compressor>amp. Not into using effects, so that may make a difference in where you should put it. Where is Stumbo when you need him?

 

[Wasnex]

I used to use my Fdeck3 in the effects loop, but now I prefer to run bass>HPF>Compressor>amp. Not into using effects, so that may make a difference in where you should put it. Where is Stumbo when you need him?

I would expect this order to change the way the compressor responds to the bass. Recently there was a thread on a very highly regarded compressor. The person who bought the compressor did not like it because it was squishing the low end too much, and one of the proposed solutions was to run an HPF before the compressor.

 

[Zbysek]

There reasons for placing it first in the chain and there are reasons to place it last in the chain-you just need to evaluate which reason applies to your situation.

Reasons to place it first in the chain:

• impedance-matching (typical for DB players using FDeck's HPF pre)
• if the chain contains compressor
• if the chain contains overdrive/distortion
• if one wants to make sure that HPF affects FOH (in case there is DI in the chain between bass and amp)

Reasons to place it last in the chain:

• if the chain contains octaver, synth or any other effect which creates deep lows
• if one wants to make sure that HPF does not affect FOH (in case there is DI in the chain between bass and amp)

It's difficult to make generalizations (no statistics available), but my feeling is that DB players usually tend to place HPF first in the chain, and BG players usually tend to place it last in the chain.

I would suggest that you start putting it last in the chain unless you find one of the reasons from the first group above applicable to your situation.

I don't think it matters much whether you place it just before the amp or in the amp's FX loop...

Good luck!

 

[Zbysek]

The main reason to concern myself, not mentioned before, was to be certain enough to purchase two of them at the same time, paying once for shipping.

It's a legitimate concern. There are some TB members around here who find it helpful to have two HPFs in their signal chain (one in the beginning, one in the end).

 

[Wisebass]

Hi SOUTH PAW

Rest assured, I'm conservative in everything I do. Haven't blown a speaker yet, and even hate the sound of one that's straining.

That 's what I call the CSF (Common Sense Filter)!

Cool, but my comment reflects that one nice byproduct of using a good HPF is that you actually can often times boost your amp's or onboard preamp's bass control a lot and still get useful results.

Bingo!

I love to quote myself…

I actually can boost more basses with HPF than I can without!

When you have an amp with a simple bass, mid and treble eq, you have to scoop your basses sometimes (room problems)

A HPF can help you to cut only those freqs, that are bad in that room (you can still boost all the others!)

Filtering is about controlling (or managing?) the room and seperating instruments in a mix, when there is too

much overlap. (use HPF for guitars too!!!)

Back to topic:

with a pedal board in front of a bass amp, wouldn't it have to be after everything in the signal chain?

That depends! Some effects sound better with HPF "in front", others are better with HPF "after" the board.

It also makes a difference for your FOH sound. You can send a filtered sound to FOH or you send your

pedalboard' s sound to FOH and use your HPF only for your stage sound (or monitor)…

What' s best for you?

You have to do it to find out!


may the bass be with you

Wise(b)ass

 

[Thumpin6string]

I would expect this order to change the way the compressor responds to the bass. Recently there was a thread on a very highly regarded compressor. The person who bought the compressor did not like it because it was squishing the low end too much, and one of the proposed solutions was to run an HPF before the compressor.

I've had no issues with my Markbass Compressore when using it in this order. I would like to see what the HPF guru Stumbo has to say.

 

[73jbass]

If you have pa support,use the hpf on the bass channel. I used it on bass and kick drum set around 60 to 80 hz. Sure did tighten everything up.

 

[BurningSkies]

Cool, but my comment reflects that one nice byproduct of using a good HPF is that you actually can often times boost your amp's or onboard preamp's bass control a lot and still get useful results.

On my own DIY amps I've settled on situating the HPF just before the power amp section. That allows me to HPF whatever I use my Aux/EFX Return input for. There's more than one way to skin felis catus, for sure.

Because I've had some time to experiment over the years...and if you're using discrete preamp and power amp units; I honestly think one of the most effective ways to use a HPF is after your preamp and before your power amp. That though, comes with it's own problems. You're basically dealing with another unit where you'll have to consider your gain staging and headroom and/or impedance between the three units.

When you run it in this positioning, you're also sending full-frequency signal to FOH (assuming you're not using a speaker-level DI) and getting the HPFing on your stage setup only. Again, this can be a mixed bag...with inexperienced sound engineers, you may be giving them just enough frequency range to hang themselves out in the room. There are two different philosophies...give FOH as much as they could want and let them sort it out, or give them the actual tone that you'd prefer them reproduce. I have more success with latter.

Other pro's cons: if you're using a pedal board it's way easier to power your HPF on the board than having pedal sitting on your amp or in the back of your rack that needs another power line run to it. Tucked in back means that it can run quietly no matter who's using your rig, if you're in gig situations that have multiple bands and you're sharing backline.

If you have an octave pedal in your chain which synthesizes notes an octave down you definitely want the HPF at the end of your chain.

Yep. Some octave effects (Like the Mantic Density Hulk, etc.), or there are some envelope filters that have possible extreme deep lows (Iron Either Xerograph Deluxe) which can be problematic if you're HPFing before them rather htan after.

if the OP is indeed using a number of heads and/or combos in different situations the real recourse is to have the pedal on the pedal board if that's in front or in a loop. Easy and in place for every gig.

...I have my HPF Series 3 under my pedal board, quietly doing it's thing and out of the way. I seldom have to pull it up from the 35hz base-line setting but if I do, I can flip my board up in soundcheck and dial it up.

 

[groooooove]

just like anything else, try either and see whats up.

logically, at the end it will catch any frequency outside of the specified range you set it to. If you have any pedals that are tracking your notes (octave, synth) you may want to consider putting it at the front - it will often make things track quicker. a suboctave will obviously add subs, but i don't think it's really worth worry about all that much.

 

[SOUTH PAW]

Hi SOUTH PAW



That 's what I call the CSF (Common Sense Filter)!




Bingo!

I love to quote myself…







Back to topic:



That depends! Some effects sound better with HPF "in front", others are better with HPF "after" the board.

It also makes a difference for your FOH sound. You can send a filtered sound to FOH or you send your

pedalboard' s sound to FOH and use your HPF only for your stage sound (or monitor)…

What' s best for you?

You have to do it to find out!


may the bass be with you

Wise(b)ass

Thanks Wisebass, CSF has served me well over the years.

As far as how how to place it, I will have to check out all the options you and others have mentioned once I have it . I will most likely go with pedalboard sound to FOH and use the HPF for my stage sound / monitor.

 

[SOUTH PAW]

If you have pa support,use the hpf on the bass channel. I used it on bass and kick drum set around 60 to 80 hz. Sure did tighten everything up.

Up till now, that has been my only experience using an HPF. I have a mixer / PA setup at home with each channel having a fixed at 75 hz button. I tried it with my bass through a multi effects pedal with and without it, and what a difference. Tightened it up for sure, but judging from that experience, I know I would set it lower, like below 60hz with an adjustable one like I plan to purchase.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

I have been using the FDeck III as the last pedal in my chain for many years. Works great!

Always wanted to test it in the effect loop, but never got around to doing it. Besides, those types of tests can be tedious to get accurate results.

So for now, I'm more than happy where it is.

YMMV

 

[ObsessiveArcher]

FWIW - I put my always on Broughton HPF between the pre-amp (Subway DI) and the power amp. When I use the Subway D-800+ it has an adjustable one built in already. Hope that helps.

 

[Turbo Sparky]

Love these types of discussions; very informative!

So then, with all of this information, both here and on the HPF specific thread, when is it better to use an "Always on" HPF versus one with a "By-pass" (On/Off)?
Is that/this just personal preference(s), or are there legitimate (not that personal preference isn't) reasoning for one over the other?
Either better/worse for Active BGs or Passive BGs?
Tomato tomahto? Ketchup catsup?
Always on upfront, bypassable at the end?

 

[Pat Harris]

I didn't expect the editors to make this video as long as it is, but I recently did a video explanation about live bass tone and using a HPF.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

My opinion, if you're using one HPF, like most people, put it at the end or near the end - possibly the compressor after the HPF. What you really care about ar the lowend thumps or "mud" due to the room going through the speakers. Some effects will benefit from a HPF, some won't. If you run a huge pedalboard, maybe it's worthwhile but for me, Ill happily just run a HPF at the end and just clean up what's going out to the amp / house. On some of my HX Stomp patches, I may employ a HPF earlier in the chain for certain effects.