Highest tension B string or a 5er?

[merseymale]

Some of it has to do with the construction and scale length of the bass, some of it's string construction, some of it's string gauge. The longer the scale length, the higher the tension will be for a given string at a given pitch. Things like headstock tiltback and top-load/string-through bridge are factors in PERCEIVED tension. They don't change the scale length, and therefore don't change the tension at a given pitch, but a lot of people (myself included) feel that the increased break angle at the nut and saddle does make the string behave a little more stiffly under the fingers and have a slightly snappier attack.

Try buying 4-string bass string sets and heavier, single B-strings (like .040"-.100" with like a .135" B) of whatever strings you already like, unless your brand offers a 5-string set like that already. Also, stainless tends to feel a little stiffer than nickel, flatwounds tend to feel a little stiffer than rounds, and hex core tends to feel stiffer than round core.

If your bass has a bridge that will both top-load and string-through, try setting it up with a disproportionately heavy B string strung through the body and lighter E-G top-loaded, and if they're hex core, all the better. Or for that matter, a hex core B with round core E-G as long as the winding composition is the same.

I personally hate them, because I personally find them hideous and difficult/distracting to play (though I'm sure I'd get used to it in short order), but multi-scale/fanned-fret basses seem to solve this problem. Depending on how radical the scale length difference is from high to low, though, they can create a new one, which is getting strings that work for them without buying single strings for each position, which is impossible from a lot of string manufacturers and expensive from any of them.

all points I would’ve readily agreed with in the past BUT since Discovering this thread I would say that I still agree with you but only tentatively…!

i’ve ordered a cheap fan-fret bass that goes as long as 35 1/2 inches for an astonishingly low amount of cash on eBay today in the hope I’ll get to the bottom of all this!

 

[merseymale]

For all intents and purposes, though, they're just like a normal Stingray 5, aren't they? I mean all the components are the same, the 20th models just have different finish, inlays and such, don't they? And I wholeheartedly agree, every 5-string Music Man I've ever played has been a fine example of the species, but I don't play fives and most people can't get over the string spacing.

as fo me, well I’m on really interested in BEAD tuning on a 4 string

 

[merseymale]

Do you find that the "usable" portion of fretboard is significantly reduced? I mean, has the threshold (or the transition zone) beyond which notes sound too chorusy clearly moved toward the nut (as in, say, around the 9th fret while it used to be at the 13th with a thinner B) or, well, not? Of course, this information would only be relevant for the two specific B strings used in the comparison.

oK
Well, my take on this is that YES you are right in fearing the ‘useful range’ has been compromised somewhat

I feel after the 5th Fret there’s some DIFFERENCE; after the 7th there a little too much difference, PERHAPS; after the 9th I’d be searching the E string for WORKABLE alternative notes!

is this a Deal Breaker?

For me I can say that I have thrown out an entire string’s worth (G) of notes to get this lower range on a 4string so I think I can live with it but yes, there is no doubt that, for me at least, the search for increased PERCEIVED tension has led to another extra compromise

YMMV?

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

all points I would’ve readily agreed with in the past BUT since Discovering this thread I would say that I still agree with you but only tentatively…!

i’ve ordered a cheap fan-fret bass that goes as long as 35 1/2 inches for an astonishingly low amount of cash on eBay today in the hope I’ll get to the bottom of all this!

35 1/2" isn't too crazy, maybe it'll be what you need and maybe it'll accept normal fiver string sets. Good luck!

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

as fo me, well I’m on really interested in BEAD tuning on a 4 string

I had an Ernie Ball Music Man USA SUB Sterling that was B-D, I just used the bottom four of a heavier (.130 bottom) 5-string set and it worked out fine, played almost just like it did as a normal four. Obviously, I had to set it up, open up the nut slots, keep a 64th more height under the B, and I ALMOST ran out of intonation adjustment on what is now the B saddle, but it worked and felt perfectly fine. I've never gotten along with 5-strings, I don't fully understand why, my hands are big enough and all that, I just... don't like them, I'm a 4-string kinda guy, so I get it.

 

[merseymale]

35 1/2" isn't too crazy, maybe it'll be what you need and maybe it'll accept normal fiver string sets. Good luck!

 

[merseymale]

I had an Ernie Ball Music Man USA SUB Sterling that was B-D, I just used the bottom four of a heavier (.130 bottom) 5-string set and it worked out fine, played almost just like it did as a normal four. Obviously, I had to set it up, open up the nut slots, keep a 64th more height under the B, and I ALMOST ran out of intonation adjustment on what is now the B saddle, but it worked and felt perfectly fine. I've never gotten along with 5-strings, I don't fully understand why, my hands are big enough and all that I just... don't like them, I'm a 4-string kinda guy, so I get it.

currently my new way of thinking would assume that the reason for this would be the quality (& rigidity?) of the materials used AND the quality of design & workmanship

FWIW I believe we will see a lot more fan-fret instruments at the lower end, rather than the higher end, currently, of the bass and guitar market due to the fact (assuming I’m right, of course!) that it can cover a ‘multitude of sins’

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

currently my new way of thinking would assume that the reason for this would be the quality (& rigidity?) of the materials used AND the quality of design & workmanship

FWIW I believe we will see a lot more fan-fret instruments at the lower end, rather than the higher end, currently, of the bass and guitar market due to the fact (assuming I’m right, of course!) that it can cover a ‘multitude of sins’

I think you're right, on both counts. There's nothing weird about Music Man's construction aside from how perfect they always seem to be and the quality of materials. As far as how they play and sound, that's another story with their weird 5-string spacing and completely unique pickups/electronics.

Regarding fanned-frets, I hope you're right if they solve folks' problems, but I sure hope they don't push any traditional instruments out of the market, because they are NOT for me.

 

[merseymale]

I think you're right, on both counts. There's nothing weird about Music Man's construction aside from how perfect they always seem to be and the quality of materials. As far as how they play and sound, that's another story with their weird 5-string spacing and completely unique pickups/electronics.

Regarding fanned-frets, I hope you're right if the solve folks' problems, but I sure hope they don't push any traditional instruments out of the market, because they are NOT for me.

i’ll let you know when this “bargain” eBay FanFret Bass lands & what I think of it FWIW

I’m very traditional when it comes to precision bases almost exclusively (!) This Was just too good an opportunity to miss

 

[JW56789]

So many things on an instrument are a compromise or balance to get the best of all possible features with the fewest problems, whether it's fret placement, string gages, and on and on. Just look at the field-testing Mr. Skjold has been talking about as a builder.

I've included a GHS 'White Paper' about String Tension for all of their marketed products. Pay close attention to Page 2 where they discuss why string tension and how tight a string feels to you can be two different things, and the production details of their different products that boost or lower that feeling. This is a great piece, and hats off to GHS for including construction details that affect this.

http://www.ghsrep.net/uploads/2/2/2/5/22258814/ghs_bass_string_guide.pdf

I'm playing a set of 'balanced tension' nickels on my five at this time, and yes I don't feel the spread of the gages as I normally would. It's not a big difference, but you can feel it. On the other hand, at times it can feel a bit strange that all five feel as similar as they do.

I've seen these 'floppy B-string' discussions many times here on TB . . . . for me, the way it feels is the way it is. A few strings improve it a little, a few make it a little worse, but I chalked it up a long time ago that Leo settled on 34" for an E-G instrument, and the B as an add-on would be a compromise to that design, so I just play it and never think about it. It is what it is.

 

[Yahboy]

My new bought cheap sub ray5 has very nice B string sound even with EB flat 2810.
Usable tone until 12th fret and no intonation setup problem.
Both Pickups placement and String choice are the factor for solid B voice.

 

[merseymale]

So many things on an instrument are a compromise or balance to get the best of all possible features with the fewest problems, whether it's fret placement, string gages, and on and on. Just look at the field-testing Mr. Skjold has been talking about as a builder.

I've included a GHS 'White Paper' about String Tension for all of their marketed products. Pay close attention to Page 2 where they discuss why string tension and how tight a string feels to you can be two different things, and the production details of their different products that boost or lower that feeling. This is a great piece, and hats off to GHS for including construction details that affect this.

http://www.ghsrep.net/uploads/2/2/2/5/22258814/ghs_bass_string_guide.pdf

I'm playing a set of 'balanced tension' nickels on my five at this time, and yes I don't feel the spread of the gages as I normally would. It's not a big difference, but you can feel it. On the other hand, at times it can feel a bit strange that all five feel as similar as they do.

I've seen these 'floppy B-string' discussions many times here on TB . . . . for me, the way it feels is the way it is. A few strings improve it a little, a few make it a little worse, but I chalked it up a long time ago that Leo settled on 34" for an E-G instrument, and the B as an add-on would be a compromise to that design, so I just play it and never think about it. It is what it is.

as Frank Zappa said:
“shut Up & PLAY yer Guitar!!”


Page 2 is how I’m now how I’m thinking about this kinda thing (@last- DOH!!) I suppose IF I have to pay a pretty penny* each time I change strings then it behooves* me to think again about tension, etc


*HEY! quit laughing at the back… I’m old!

 

[merseymale]

I think you're right, on both counts. There's nothing weird about Music Man's construction aside from how perfect they always seem to be and the quality of materials. As far as how they play and sound, that's another story with their weird 5-string spacing and completely unique pickups/electronics.

Regarding fanned-frets, I hope you're right if they solve folks' problems, but I sure hope they don't push any traditional instruments out of the market, because they are NOT for me.

In case you’re interested, my Fan-Frets/multiscale BASS arrive today

I paid £200 inc. shipping for it which I imagine is about 170 bucks

this was for a secondhand passive example and what arrived was a brand-new in box complete with tags and cellophane etc
brand-new active bass!!

anyhoo, It certainly has the “perceived tension” required for all strings;
It’s lightweight and has WAY more frets than most... admittedly that is usually an unimportant thing for me(YMMV) but in the context of my BEAD tuning then many people complain that the notes on the G string are not available, well on this bass ALL of them are!

As I say, I’ve only had it about an hour or so but I may have to seriously reconsider keeping my four traditional basses?!!

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

In case you’re interested, my Fan-Frets/multiscale BASS arrive today

I paid £200 inc. shipping for it which I imagine is about 170 bucks

this was for a secondhand passive example and what arrived was a brand-new in box complete with tags and cellophane etc
brand-new active bass!!

anyhoo, It certainly has the “perceived tension” required for all strings;
It’s lightweight and has WAY more frets than most... admittedly that is usually an unimportant thing for me(YMMV) but in the context of my BEAD tuning then many people complain that the notes on the G string are not available, well on this bass ALL of them are!

As I say, I’ve only had it about an hour or so but I may have to seriously reconsider keeping my four traditional basses?!!

Awesome! I hope it works out great for you. If you wind up liking it enough, you could always sell a couple of your less-used instruments and pick up a Dingwall or some other nice multi-scale bass. Like I said, I'm glad they exist and I hope they solve some problems for anyone who plays them, I just don't get along with them personally.

 

[HaphAsSard]

In case you’re interested, my Fan-Frets/multiscale BASS arrive today

I paid £200 inc. shipping for it which I imagine is about 170 bucks

this was for a secondhand passive example and what arrived was a brand-new in box complete with tags and cellophane etc
brand-new active bass!!

anyhoo, It certainly has the “perceived tension” required for all strings;
It’s lightweight and has WAY more frets than most... admittedly that is usually an unimportant thing for me(YMMV) but in the context of my BEAD tuning then many people complain that the notes on the G string are not available, well on this bass ALL of them are!

As I say, I’ve only had it about an hour or so but I may have to seriously reconsider keeping my four traditional basses?!!

Sweet! Post a NBD thread about it; or, at least here:
RedSub Coliseum fanned fret (new models for 2020)
There's not much on RedSub basses on these boards yet (more on Basschat, it seems), as you may have realised:

NBD Redsub semihollow 4
Opinion on RedSub Basses

 

[merseymale]

Sweet! Post a NBD thread about it; or, at least here:
RedSub Coliseum fanned fret (new models for 2020)
There's not much on RedSub basses on these boards yet (more on Basschat, it seems), as you may have realised:

NBD Redsub semihollow 4
Opinion on RedSub Basses

thanks!