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Hipshot Extenders don't work as advertised with small post tuners.

PhatBasstard

PhatBasstard

Spector Dissector
Feb 3, 2002
8,191
3,010
Tacoma WA
#1
I've used Hipshot extenders on my Spector 4's for years. Drop to D. Love 'em.
I ordered a Double Stop lever so I can have drop D "and" C.
They are all advertised as being able to drop to B.

Imagine my surprise when the Double Stop lever bottomed out at only a sharp Db...
The little plate hitting the (flipped, see pic) ring of the lever.
Main adjustment screw now no longer in play.
I tried it on two different basses with M4 extenders to the same result.

Put the original levers back on both extenders and decided to check something:
How low could they drop with the original levers?
Yup. You guessed it. A sharp Db!
I never noticed this before as I had only set them ever to a drop D.

Now, I think the issue is the smaller diameter string post releases less string,
for the same turning radius, as a large diameter string post tuner (Fender style).
Thus, less play in the tuning range.

These were obviously designed with large diameter string posts in mind to work properly.
However, is Hipshot unaware of this issue (Hard to believe at this point)?
If aware, why no disclaimer about, "Due to the design, the M4 (and probably all small post extenders) can only be used usefully to a drop D."?
I can't find anything about this issue/difference on their site.
They're just advertised as having a drop range to B.

I would never have ordered a Double Stop had I known of this issue/difference.
I have emailed Hipshot. No response yet as it was late Friday.
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#2
I must be missing something. The tuners don't look like Hipshot to me, they look like Schaller.

Edit: My mistake - I see Hipshot M4's have the Schaller "S" logo and are made in Germany. Surprised me all to heck.
 
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#4
HeavyDuty said:
Hipshot customer service is really good - you may want to try calling them, your email may have gotten caught up in a spam filter.
Click to expand...
It was about 5pm pacific yesterday when I sent it so I figured, due to the weekend, I'd give them until Monday or Tuesday.

And Yes, when I've needed it over the years their CS was great.
I'm just shocked that something like this seems to have been overlooked.
They need to either address it physically
(Moving the screw plate up, farther away from the lever and extend the lever's knub would probably work. Or thin the outside diameter of the lever's ring so the screw plate could travel a little farther),
or add the disclaimer about their small post extenders (I imagine others like the Gotoh GB7 model have this same issue) only having a working range down to D.
Not B.
 
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#6
When they first started making the double drops I remember a disclaimer about the lower limit depending on the gauge of string, headstock design, etc. It was always in theory low B but almost nobody has really ever gotten it to work beyond C.
 
#7
lz4005 said:
When they first started making the double drops I remember a disclaimer about the lower limit depending on the gauge of string, headstock design, etc. It was always in theory low B but almost nobody has really ever gotten it to work beyond C.
Click to expand...
Ok. But the point you missed above is that the same thing happens with the original lever.
The Double Stop lever is identical to the original. It just has that second stop screw added.
So in the bottom position, both Double Stop and the original have the same restricted
(versus what is advertised for all) range on small post models.
Even their setup instructions have it going to D and then down to C (exactly what I need).
Currently impossible with small post tuners.

Bottom line, there seems to be no disclaimer about this anywhere on their site.
And because of it, I bought a Double Stop lever that is worthless to me because it doesn't (can't!) work as advertised for my model of Hipshot extender...
 
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#8
HeavyDuty said:
Hipshot customer service is really good - you may want to try calling them, your email may have gotten caught up in a spam filter.
Click to expand...
Well.....
After a week and a half of no response, I called.
Guy on the phone really couldn't seem to fully grasp why it's an issue with small post tuners.
Tried to give me "the core" excuse, but couldn't explain why (it's not the core).
The only two factors that are going to matter to this issue (within the mechanism's given range)
are string post circumference and/or string gauge (Both the string itself and the size/diameter of the lead
going around said post).

He said they've gotten previous calls about this issue,
but had no explanation as to why there is no disclaimer about it.
"I will pass it along...….."

So, on your E string, if you have a large post, Fender style tuner, you're probably fine down to B or C.
If you have a small post, M4 or GB7 style tuner and don't need to drop more than one step to D,
you're probably golden. Eb and D with a Double Stop.

Hipshot's CS with me, over many years, has been stellar and I do believe the make great products.
But this is a glaring oversite (both in public information/disclaimer absent from their site and seemingly
the lack of physical/mechanical understanding of why the issue is occurring) on their part.

I hope they figure it out.
 
#9
HUGE UPDATE:
While the title of this thread is still correct, BIG BIG UPS to Bill Woolery for unbelievably
ASTONISHING customer service.

After some emails back and forth, Bill apologized for the mess-up and said he wasn't aware that
the disclaimer/clarifier didn't transfer over to their new site.

He first tried to custom make a collar for my M4 Xtender's post which I think will work,
but I need to grind it a little shorter to fit.

But here's where the most shocking customer service came in:
In case the collar wouldn't work, he also sent a full set of USA Ultralites with the appropriate
Xtender (HEGY-3/8) with another Double Stop lever that not only fit perfectly, but the
Double Stop worked exactly as advertised (due to the full 3/8" post, not tapered like an M4 or GB7).

All I can say is WOW!!!
Hipshot and Bill Woolery.
Unbelievable customer service.
 
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