I've been recording a lot of eight bar clips in Ableton lately and even with a two-bar count-in/metronome I find myself struggling to hit the first beat exactly on time. It's not the end of the universe when you're playing in a live band, but when you're working with loops in Ableton that fractional delay becomes completely unworkable. By the time I get to the second eight bars I'm perfectly in time. So if I play 12 or 16 bars and use the Simpler to loop the best eight bars it all works. But I'd really love to hit that first beat correctly. Any tips? I always practice with a metronome, so I'm surprised to be having this issue!
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Hitting the first beat
- Thread starter tekhna
- Start date
I claim no particular expertise here, but I suspect that it's "all in your head" -- i.e., you're "choking" under the pressure and tensing up at the crucial moment. Reminds me of all those posts I've read over the years about someone being able to play this or that bass line perfectly, every time, until hitting the "record" button.
I don't know what the solution is, however, other than to "just relax" (which probably isn't helpful). Personally, I'd have a nice glass of Scotch and then try again, but YMMV.
I don't know what the solution is, however, other than to "just relax" (which probably isn't helpful). Personally, I'd have a nice glass of Scotch and then try again, but YMMV.
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Are you playing before the count in starts, or are you always playing your first note after the count in is over?
It can be really helpful to work on your pre-count timing. When I record loops I always play myself in before I hit the record button. You can even do it in your head, listening to the drums, playing the groove, whatever it takes to get your mind into the song before the count happens, so you aren't trying to snap into time all at once. The count in is more leading you to the top of the form, rather than the beginning of the song.
It can be really helpful to work on your pre-count timing. When I record loops I always play myself in before I hit the record button. You can even do it in your head, listening to the drums, playing the groove, whatever it takes to get your mind into the song before the count happens, so you aren't trying to snap into time all at once. The count in is more leading you to the top of the form, rather than the beginning of the song.
That's actually a real helpful framing, I'll give it a shot.
when I play with a loop pedal, I never loop the "first pass."
I play all the way through then record the second pass.
or even keep playing till it feels right and then loop.
So If you have a way to footswitch "record" on ableton while looping, try that
I play all the way through then record the second pass.
or even keep playing till it feels right and then loop.
So If you have a way to footswitch "record" on ableton while looping, try that
I have a similar issue but while recording backing vocals. It's like I'm waiting to hear the whole band or the lead vocal get there and queue me in before I start singing my part.
In my case, the obvious first step to solve it would be to start taking it seriously and actually practice singing and recording vocals.
In your case, I'd practice recording your line over just a click track instead of a more musical loop. I think this might help you work develope the confidence to hit the first beat knowing that "the rest of the band" will come in with you rather than waiting for "them" to start so you can join in.
In my case, the obvious first step to solve it would be to start taking it seriously and actually practice singing and recording vocals.
In your case, I'd practice recording your line over just a click track instead of a more musical loop. I think this might help you work develope the confidence to hit the first beat knowing that "the rest of the band" will come in with you rather than waiting for "them" to start so you can join in.
all through headphones?
I was having similar issues with some recording recently and I found a much more confident command (felt more like 'me') leaving a can off and have an ear open to the room.
Before you go trying anything, you should look up how to do a latency test with your DAW if you haven't already. Something like this with a loopback test to get things perfect:
I'd hate for you to feel like your messing up only because the recording is delayed and it's not actually your playing.
I'd hate for you to feel like your messing up only because the recording is delayed and it's not actually your playing.
FullumMusic
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- Oct 13, 2022
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A few things...
- First, make sure your latency is low enough. Lower the all the audio buffer size as low as possible without running into audio issues. If the latency is too high you'll never land on the beat the first time around. And then you eventually get it to line up because our brains will compensate for a small amount of latency. But your brain can't compensate for it until it hears the difference in computer time vs real world bass playing time.
Lower the audio buffer and crank up the CPU simulator and see. Humans can hear latency at about 10ms. Musicians can sometimes hear it down to 6ms. I have an M2 Pro Macbook Pro and run my audiobuffer at 32 samples 48kHz and have zero CPU or latency or buffer issues.
- Second, start playing before the punch-in point, during the 2 bar lead-in. Don't wait for the recording beat 1. Play before it and keep playing through it. That's the same way people used to punch in when recording to Tape as well.
- Third, depending what you intend to use the recording for, utilize the flexibility of ableton and don't worry about that first time around the 8 bars. If you're recording an 8 bar loop, just loop-record for a while. After you're done, find the best 8 bars in your bass recording. I mean, being able to hit the 1 the first time around is a good skill to have and keep working on it. And also, the beauty of DAWs like Ableton is their flexibility and non-linear approach to music production.
We use Cubasis for our recording platform and could very easily fix that. We just click and drag it to the right spot. lol!!
The two beat intro may be too short. I much prefer a full measure of click. The metronome click should match the value of the speed of the notes you start with. For instance in a song in 4/4 that opens with 16th notes, the click should be 16th notes.
As for hitting the downbeat on the nails I suggest a recommendation that you record one of your gigs, then see how many times you miss the down beat. If you don’t have an issue live but only when recording, sounds like a touch of performance anxiety.
Best wishes, and hope you get this sorted out soon.
+100 I can't believe I failed to think of latency as a possible issue.
It might not be you
Here’s a tip for Ableton, it’s how I record most of the time:
Set the global quantization to the number of bars in the part that you want to play. Select the empty clip slot that you want record into, and play the loop that you want to record over (or, if you don’t have any clips to play along with, press play to start the metronome). Play along with the loop (or the metronome) without recording. Once you feel comfortable playing along, quickly press Enter and continue playing. The recording will start the next time you’re at the beginning of the loop.
Side note: there is no need to use Simpler to loop a specific part of your recording. You can just go to the clip editor at the bottom of the screen and adjust the start and end points.
And about latency: it’s certainly worth checking if there’s a problem there, but it seems unlikely to me that that is the cause of the problem you describe. If it were, everything you recorded would be off, not just the first few notes.
Set the global quantization to the number of bars in the part that you want to play. Select the empty clip slot that you want record into, and play the loop that you want to record over (or, if you don’t have any clips to play along with, press play to start the metronome). Play along with the loop (or the metronome) without recording. Once you feel comfortable playing along, quickly press Enter and continue playing. The recording will start the next time you’re at the beginning of the loop.
Side note: there is no need to use Simpler to loop a specific part of your recording. You can just go to the clip editor at the bottom of the screen and adjust the start and end points.
And about latency: it’s certainly worth checking if there’s a problem there, but it seems unlikely to me that that is the cause of the problem you describe. If it were, everything you recorded would be off, not just the first few notes.
Direct monitoring usually is sufficient, but it depends on the DAW. It's worth diagnosing and getting some numbers to be sure.
have you tried clapping/tapping out the rhythm (no bass) along with a metronome and recording to see how close you are? We do this in bagpiping
It was 100% recording latency. Ableton changed drivers on me. Nailed it first try when I switched back to the Focusrite drivers. Maddening! Thanks all.
