Hofner-(not just Beatle Basses)-Group Part 2

[DavesnothereCA]

So yesterday I took my nomad nut files and regrooved the nut slots (at a slight angle) on my Hofner, and dusted off the electronics. I should had did this when I changed to the LABELLE tape wounds but my laziness got the best of me as I was done with the setup after cleaning the years of crud off the fretboard and off-gassing residue off the pup covers and bridge.

Low and Behold not only does the bass play better but it now intonates perfectly and cleared up a couple of dead spots.

So thanks for making this post, so I now can play my Hofner more often as it was becoming a wall ornament.

~
Frightfully many basses and guitars [etc] come from the factory with a too high nut, even some instruments which are made in USA or Europe, which in that instance is inexcusable, considering their usual price range.

While it is easy to go too deep when filing nut grooves, if a person does get it right [or pays a professional to do the work], it can be a night and day experience, and can make even a budget priced instrument play and tune like a high-end one - or better, if the high-end one needed the same attention and had not yet received it.

Last month, I put LaBella 760FL-S [43-104] DT flats onto a Jay Turser JTB-40 [their 30" scale Mini-P-ish Squier-ish bass] in between two rehearsals, and that alone made a big improvement over the short scale GHS Boomer rounds which were on it when I bought it, both in feel and sound, though those particular rounds were not as annoying to me as some are.

After the 2nd rehearsal, I filed the nut, which needed it anyway, regardless of what strings were on it, and now, the bass is a dream to play !

I had done the same for my Ignition Club bass, 3 or so years ago, not long after its purchase, using short scale LaBella LT Flats, with a similarly decent result.

Bottom line is that a properly grooved nut can still make all of the difference in the world to an instrument which was otherwise as well adjusted as it could be.

So talk to your favourite luthier or guitar tech, if you do not feel comfortable trying the work yourself, and get the best out of your bass.

You'll thank me later !
~

 

[duanev3]

Feeler gage and .024" space from the top of the 1st fret and the bottom of string worked out great.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Feeler gauge and .024" space from the top of the 1st fret and the bottom of string worked out great.

~
I usually do it by eye, but I might have a set of those in my auto toolbox, left over from gapping spark plugs of my older vehicles.

Now you have me thinking - which in and of itself could be a risk.
~

 

[duanev3]

~
Frightfully many basses and guitars [etc] come from the factory with a too high nut, even some instruments which are made in USA or Europe, which in that instance is inexcusable, considering their usual price range.

While it is easy to go too deep when filing nut grooves, if a person does get it right [or pays a professional to do the work], it can be a night and day experience, and can make even a budget priced instrument play and tune like a high-end one - or better, if the high-end one needed the same attention and had not yet received it.

Last month, I put LaBella 760FL-S [43-104] DT flats onto a Jay Turser JTB-40 [their 30" scale Mini-P-ish Squier-ish bass] in between two rehearsals, and that alone made a big improvement over the short scale GHS Boomer rounds which were on it when I bought it, both in feel and sound, though those particular rounds were not as annoying to me as some are.

After the 2nd rehearsal, I filed the nut, which needed it anyway, regardless of what strings were on it, and now, the bass is a dream to play !

I had done the same for my Ignition Club bass, 3 or so years ago, not long after its purchase, using short scale LaBella LT Flats, with a similarly decent result.

Bottom line is that a properly grooved nut can still make all of the difference in the world to an instrument which was otherwise as well adjusted as it could be.

So talk to your favourite luthier or guitar tech, if you do not feel comfortable trying the work yourself, and get the best out of your bass.

You'll thank me later !
~

I really don't depend on the manufacturer to get the setup the way I like it.... I own over 47 guitars and on all 47 I had to do something to get them where I liked them whether it was aesthetics or changing out components. As long as the meat of it is good, I can work with anything.

The best investment I made was a $600 two week Luthier training course... That had to be the best $600 I ever spent.

 

[nattiep]

~
I forget now - Are those the same strings as when you first posted about this ?

And if yes, have you tried any others at least for the E ?

Some of my/our posts have not received a direct response from you, so it is hard to know what all you have done.
~

Sorry for being vague. It'll work and then not. These are the same style strings but a new set. I've raised the action a bit to see if that'll help.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

My Zero Designs nut just arrived.

Good-quality piece of bone, no inconsistencies, hard spots, or discolouration. It's a couple of thou shorter than the stock one on my Ignition, but not enough to be noticeable.

It comes with a good variety of frets, nicely-cut, and with the offset tang that's essential to the retrofit process. I was skeptical, but I think this is actually going to work!

With any luck, it might help the open E to sound a little more defined, which is my only major beef with the Club at this point.

I've got to take a fair amount off the bottom to get the nut level with the fingerboard, but as soon as it's done, I'll post a review.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

My Zero Designs nut just arrived.

Good-quality piece of bone, no inconsistencies, hard spots, or discolouration. It's a couple of thou shorter than the stock one on my Ignition, but not enough to be noticeable.

It comes with a good variety of frets, nicely-cut, and with the offset tang that's essential to the retrofit process. I was skeptical, but I think this is actually going to work!

With any luck, it might help the open E to sound a little more defined, which is my only major beef with the Club at this point.

I've got to take a fair amount off the bottom to get the nut level with the fingerboard, but as soon as it's done, I'll post a review.

~
I am like the cat who ate some cheese and waited outside the mouse's door with 'baited' breath, but in MY case, it's for your update.

....hopefully including some pics - nudge, nudge,

So the idea of them supplying multiple frets is to let us choose the one which is closest to the desired height and string action, yes ?
~

 

[steve_rolfeca]

~
I am like the cat who ate some cheese and waited outside the mouse's door with 'baited' breath, but in MY case, it's for your update.

....hopefully including some pics - nudge, nudge,

So the idea of them supplying multiple frets is to let us choose the one which is closest to the desired height and string action, yes ?
~

Eggs Zachary!

out of the box, the nut blank is very cleanly cut. The edges are crisp, but require a little sanding for comfort.

I had to open up the slots a little, due to the heavier gauges of the DR Legends flats.

I could still remove a bit of material from the top and do a little more shaping, particularly on the treble side:

it’s an excellent fit, once you shave it down to the right height:

The stainless zero fret(s) are nicely cut, and require minimal sanding to clean up the ends:

As I’d hoped, intonation is a little sweeter overall, the buzz on the open G is gone (factory nut was cut too low), and the open E string in particular has a little better pitch definition.

 

[MAJOR METAL]

All the Hofner fans need to get a copy of Geddy Lee's bass book - such a great sampling and history.

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

All the Hofner fans need to get a copy of Geddy Lee's bass book - such a great sampling and history.

 

[DavesnothereCA]

Eggs Zachary!

out of the box, the nut blank is very cleanly cut. The edges are crisp, but require a little sanding for comfort.

I had to open up the slots a little, due to the heavier gauges of the DR Legends flats.

I could still remove a bit of material from the top and do a little more shaping, particularly on the treble side:

View attachment 4691179

it’s an excellent fit, once you shave it down to the right height:
View attachment 4691176

View attachment 4691177

The stainless zero fret(s) are nicely cut, and require minimal sanding to clean up the ends:

View attachment 4691178

As I’d hoped, intonation is a little sweeter overall, the buzz on the open G is gone (factory nut was cut too low), and the open E string in particular has a little better pitch definition.

~
Thanks for the pics and explanation !

It looks like you achieved your objectives.

So do I have it correctly that the main task is to shave the underside of the new nut, so that the ledge of it [where part of the zero fret is to rest] ends up even with the fretboard ?

And please might we have a couple more photos ?

I'm curious to see the underside of one of the spare zero frets, to get a sense of how one of these should sit when applied.

And also for completeness and some general perspective, a full frontal of the bass itself would be great.

We appreciate your being the #1 Guinea pig for these.
~

 

[steve_rolfeca]

~
...So do I have it correctly that the main task is to shave the underside of the new nut, so that the ledge of it [where part of the zero fret is to rest] ends up even with the fretboard ?

...I'm curious to see the underside of one of the spare zero frets, to get a sense of how one of these should sit when applied.

...And also for completeness and some general perspective, a full frontal of the bass itself would be great.

...We appreciate your being the #1 Guinea pig for these.

1. Yes. The Zero Glide nut has a flat shelf that the "headstock side" of the fret rests on. As supplied, the nut has a healthy amount of extra material on the bottom, and you just keep removing material until the nut sits low enough that the shelf is level with the fretboard.
   
   Their instructions and videos are very clear, even down to the fact that you may have to sand a slight angle into the bottom of the nut if the fingerboard isn't perfectly parallel to the shelf in the headstock that the nut sits on.
   
2. I'm sorry, I should have taken a picture of the raw nut, before I started testing the fret samples they provide. During manufacture, they cut a small recess into the inner face of the nut where it rests against the end of the fingerboard.
   
   That creates a slot, a little narrower than the full fingerboard width. The tangs on the zero frets are clipped off at each end, so that the tangs can drop into the slot. This is similar to the way you install frets on a bound fingerboard, to get a nice clean line without the tangs showing through the binding.
   
   FYI, the tang on these frets is very slightly asymmetric. If you think about it carefully, the reason is obvious- the perfect placement for a zero fret is centered right over the line where the fingerboard ends on the Ignition. Zero Glide doesn't have access to your fingerboard, so they cut the full width of the slot into the nut.
   
   The resulting offset is only a few thou, and it's still going to intonate pretty well. Still, they took care of that by using fret wire that has the corresponding offset formed in the tang. Bingo! Perfect intonation at the first fret.
   
3. Full frontal is pretty boring at the moment. Stock Hofner plastic, except for the nickel buttons on the Wilkinson 19:1 tuners. Still using the stock control plate, although I have the parts and plastic to create a new VVT control plate. Fingerboard cleaned up and oiled, frets levelled and ends tidied up. That's about it...

Interesting side-notes from looking at this photo:

• Hofner plastic is unusual. There's a slight pinkish cast to the pick guard on mine. You may be able to see it in the picture. Under some lights, the panel looks identical, but in morning sunlight from the window, it looks just a little whiter. Weird.
• I have a Chinese repro guard to make a new control panel from. The pearloid effect is a perfect match for the stock plastic. However, it's snow-white, and the colour difference is disturbing.
• I haven't decided what to do about that- I have some BWB plastic kicking around, so I could replace both, or simply ditch the guard.
• The tailpiece is slightly lopsided. It doesn't seem to affect tuning stability, but I might fix it at the same time I get around to clocking the tuners to improve the way they follow the shape of the headstock.

 

[duanev3]

I purchased one these (zero glide) but for my Jazz bass, as I was worried I would screw up the nut filing while filing a nut for the first time. I now have an extra zero glide bass nut in my parts drawer. All the open strings have the same ring so I'm good for now.

This is great info, but if I were to ever have to change a nut on one of my Hofner basses it would be of the same type and color. I really like the black and white visual look to it. And I don't believe I will ever hack out my zero fret on my Hofner basses like the previous picture. I'm still trying to figure out why someone would do that.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

...This is great info, but if I were to ever have to change a nut on one of my Hofner basses it would be of the same type and color. I really like the black and white visual look to it.

...I don't believe I will ever hack out my zero fret on my Hofner basses like the previous picture. I'm still trying to figure out why someone would do that.

Zero Glide offers black Tusq as well as bone, but it's more expensive.

I was on the fence about colour, but I kind of like the way the bone nut moves it closer to the Contemporary colour scheme.

I suspect that whoever hacked the zero fret in those other photos simply didn't know what they were doing. Without seeing the instrument up close we can't tell, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mistake anyway. Dollars to donuts, there was actually too much relief in the neck, and the original owner (or poorly-trained tech!) was trying to make it easier to fret at the first position...

 

[duanev3]

I was also surprised to see that some Hofner basses don't have the zero fret. For some reason I was under the impression that all Hofner bass guitars regardless of the build origin had the zero fret. So I can see where the zero-glide nut would be a great upgrade and save on cost in not having a Luthier cut a fret channel on the board.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I was also surprised to see that some Hofner basses don't have the zero fret. For some reason I was under the impression that all Hofner bass guitars regardless of the build origin had the zero fret. So I can see where the zero-glide nut would be a great upgrade and save on cost in not having a Luthier cut a fret channel on the board.

AFAIK, Ignitions and Icons all use conventional nuts. The Zero-Glide is more than a cost savings- a luthier can't cut a fret channel into the board on these basses, because it's already been cut slightly short to accommodate a conventional Gibson-style nut.

The whole geometry of the instrument is different- the Chinese basses have conventional full-width neck heels, and the fingerboard extension is level with the top, like a set-neck Gibson or PRS. This changes the required pickup height, as well as the bridge height and tailpiece angle. Full-sized pickup holes are cut into the body, like most American-style semi-hollow guitars.

Only German and the current Indonesian-made Contemporaries have a zero fret and a sealed body w/no pickup cut-outs. The Contemporaries also have the authentic narrow, pointed neck heel and the raised, floating fingerboard extension hanging out over the body, just like the German basses.

There does seem to be some inconsistency within the Contemporary series, as at least some other owners have reported them having an arched back. The late-model CT500 Cavern at my Hofner dealer had a flat back.

People who are serious Beatle-chasers don't like the Icon/Ignition geometry, because you can't use an authentic 60's-style skinny strap that loops around the FB extension.

Although I'm a big McCartney fan, I've no interest in looking like a Beatles wannabe. I actually prefer the fatter Ignition neck, and the way it feels hanging on a strap.

I could be off-base on this, but I also suspect that neck resets won't be required in 20 years, as they often are on the more authentic Beatle basses.

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

AFAIK, Ignitions and Icons all use conventional nuts. The Zero-Glide is more than a cost savings- a luthier can't cut a fret channel into the board on these basses, because it's already been cut slightly short to accommodate a conventional Gibson-style nut.

The whole geometry of the instrument is different- the Chinese basses have conventional full-width neck heels, and the fingerboard extension is level with the top, like a set-neck Gibson or PRS. This changes the required pickup height, as well as the bridge height and tailpiece angle. Full-sized pickup holes are cut into the body, like most American-style semi-hollow guitars.

Only German and the current Indonesian-made Contemporaries have a zero fret and a sealed body w/no pickup cut-outs. The Contemporaries also have the authentic narrow, pointed neck heel and the raised, floating fingerboard extension hanging out over the body, just like the German basses.

There does seem to be some inconsistency within the Contemporary series, as at least some other owners have reported them having an arched back. The late-model CT500 Cavern at my Hofner dealer had a flat back.

People who are serious Beatle-chasers don't like the Icon/Ignition geometry, because you can't use an authentic 60's-style skinny strap that loops around the FB extension.

Although I'm a big McCartney fan, I've no interest in looking like a Beatles wannabe. I actually prefer the fatter Ignition neck, and the way it feels hanging on a strap.

I could be off-base on this, but I also suspect that neck resets won't be required in 20 years, as they often are on the more authentic Beatle basses.

For decades the German Hofners also had the wide heal at the neck. The wide heal began around 67/68 and continued until the reissues in the 90s. Some German models also don't have the zero fret. Notably the fretless German Hofners.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

For decades the German Hofners also had the wide heal at the neck. The wide heal began around 67/68 and continued until the reissues in the 90s. Some German models also don't have the zero fret. Notably the fretless German Hofners.

I'm a complete neophyte when it comes to Hofner, and only know what I've seen and read in the last couple of months.

Do the wide-heel German models from the late 60's still have the floating fingerboard extension, and the sealed body with no pickup cutouts, just a hole for the pickup wire?

 

[steve_rolfeca]

As promised, here's a photo of the spare frets from the Zero Glide kit:

 

[Doctor Intrepid]

I'm a complete neophyte when it comes to Hofner, and only know what I've seen and read in the last couple of months.

Do the wide-heel German models from the late 60's still have the floating fingerboard extension, and the sealed body with no pickup cutouts, just a hole for the pickup wire?

The fingerboard floats a little, but not as much. Hofner started cutting out the top for pickups in 1967 I believe and continued until the 90s. My 68 is an example. The Green line of Hofners had the top cut out when using the blade style of pickups, as I have in my 68. They no longer use the blades on the Green line basses, so I am unsure if they still cut out the top.