Holding the bass like Hadrien Feraud

[Honch]

This clip is well worth watching :

He addresses just those things I've said earlier. First:

1. That the shoulders tense up when sitting down. And the importance of shoulders to be "hung down" and relaxed at all times. He makes a really good point there.
2. The importance of your arms length and how tall or short you are as a person. He had long jangly arms. Not every one has.
3. The DIFFERENCE of angle you have to keep when doing A) regular finger picked bass B) playing with a pick C) Doing lots of thumbing, slap, and popping.

See, point 3, requires all different and can't be pulled off convincingly and conveniently with Gary Willis idea. Take a good look at Mark Kings "chin" position of the bass, just in order to get the forearm almost behind the bass and as horisontal angle as possible in regard to the strings. He hasn't reported any RSI as far as I can tell. I don't know anything about his fretting hand though, which must have taken quite some damage by now.

I don't think there's one angle fits all for each and every person, or even playing style. And picking with a pick, and doing funk with a lot of slaps, thumbs and pops actually do require different angles, and you can't really change that while you're playing live at a gig, maybe change basses with different strap lengths. Or playing a double neck bass, configured the same, but use the upper neck for thumb, funk, and the lower one neck for straightening out the picking plucking wrist whenever you go back to "regular" playing.

This works well for him:

Bass tucked underneath his armpit!!!!

And here, he just have to angle the wrist severely when plucking regularly:

As I said earlier with watching people writing with a pen, you'll go "oh, how can you hold a pen like that, don't you get cramped up and lactic acid!?!?!?" and then get the reply "no, but I would if I held it like you do..."

It has worked for him, and still does. Don't tell me that this angle would be "perfect" for regular finger picking just as well as it is for thumbing for all persons alike. Not anyone would convince me onto that. You can put a gun to my head, I won't ever agree with this. Remember one thing:

What's ergonomic for you, ain't ergonomic for me.

 

[Honch]

A quick look at Google images shows a fair number of pictures of Mr. Feraud with his right wrist bent pretty far and at least as many where his right wrist is straighter and more relaxed. The same goes for his left.

I'm not saying HF's playing position will be right for everyone, but I suspect that someone who has attained his level of skill and facility has probably also found a technique that isn't doing much damage, either. At this point in his career, if there was something causing him pain I can only imagine he'd have corrected it by now.

I think he's found out that the variation will not get him any RSI, or injuries, he keeps one angle until he's getting fatigued, and then immediately change. Attacking the strings as different angle will also produce a different tone form the instrument. VARIATION is the key here. If you keep on playing all the time, the very exact position you will get fatigued and injured in no time. Variation and taking rests/breaks is the main key, as well as playing with relaxation in muscles, especially shoulders

 

[CharlyG]

I think the proper technique for electric bass may be using a thumb pick. I can never seem to find a decent size tho. We rockers like fingers cuz we can sling the bass lower. But there is a much clearer/cleaner/positive attack with a pick, and you get to cross pick. On fast tunes there is no comparison, IMO.

 

[Rev J]

He addresses just those things I've said earlier. First:

1. That the shoulders tense up when sitting down. And the importance of shoulders to be "hung down" and relaxed at all times. He makes a really good point there.
2. The importance of your arms length and how tall or short you are as a person. He had long jangly arms. Not every one has.
3. The DIFFERENCE of angle you have to keep when doing A) regular finger picked bass B) playing with a pick C) Doing lots of thumbing, slap, and popping.

See, point 3, requires all different and can't be pulled off convincingly and conveniently with Gary Willis idea. Take a good look at Mark Kings "chin" position of the bass, just in order to get the forearm almost behind the bass and as horisontal angle as possible in regard to the strings. He hasn't reported any RSI as far as I can tell. I don't know anything about his fretting hand though, which must have taken quite some damage by now.

I don't think there's one angle fits all for each and every person, or even playing style. And picking with a pick, and doing funk with a lot of slaps, thumbs and pops actually do require different angles, and you can't really change that while you're playing live at a gig, maybe change basses with different strap lengths. Or playing a double neck bass, configured the same, but use the upper neck for thumb, funk, and the lower one neck for straightening out the picking plucking wrist whenever you go back to "regular" playing.

This works well for him:

Bass tucked underneath his armpit!!!!

And here, he just have to angle the wrist severely when plucking regularly:

As I said earlier with watching people writing with a pen, you'll go "oh, how can you hold a pen like that, don't you get cramped up and lactic acid!?!?!?" and then get the reply "no, but I would if I held it like you do..."

It has worked for him, and still does. Don't tell me that this angle would be "perfect" for regular finger picking just as well as it is for thumbing for all persons alike. Not anyone would convince me onto that. You can put a gun to my head, I won't ever agree with this. Remember one thing:

What's ergonomic for you, ain't ergonomic for me.

Seems to work for Billy Sheehan too:

C/S,
Rev J

 

[Brad Johnson]

i'm with everyone who is suggesting positions to practice/play in order to decrease the likelihood of needless strain and/or injury --- or increase effectiveness/efficiency. that said: i don't know of any musician, on any instrument, who can say that after 50+ years of playing: "i have no playing related issues!" it's not possible. it's part of the 'gig'.

so you do what you have to do!

Not quite at 50 years yet but I've been playing since the 70's. No playing related issues.

Here's what I've done...
I've worked on playing as comfortably and efficiently as I could and it paid off.

I keep a stable playing height (same seated as standing) and angle despite playing alot of different basses.

I keep my string height low, turn up my volumes and use very little effort to fret.
I don't keep either hand at an uncomfortable angle.

I use a nice strap because many of my basses are considered heavy.

Those are the highlights. Years ago I did have a 3-15 cab fall on me as I walked backwards downstairs but that was after I had finished playing. I learned from that mistake too.

 

[Honch]

Here's what I've done...
I've worked on playing as comfortably and efficiently as I could and it paid off.

This. ^

I've come to the conclusion and empirical evidence as well as experience with these schooled musicians compared to somewhat DIY homegrown techniques. While you're starting out in the teens, and have this urge to skip all rudimental callistenics, and don't have any patience to wait, chances/risk are that your style and sound and idiosyncrasies (read: bad habits) will catch up on you later on, and bite you in the butt. While you have found or discovered a new style, or new "timbre" that is unique to you, it may turn bad in the end. I find that if you have - at least - started out taking a few bass lesson for at least a year or two to a good private teacher who can give you quite good hints at the actual hand positions and the ins and outs of it, you'll be better off. Since this actually has nothing to do with whatever music you want to play, or this or that genre, I've come to the conclusion now, since I've been growing up along and with both camps, that they who actually paid for some lessons for a while have greater stamina, and less RSI syndromes (tendonitis, carpal tunnel) than anyone who totally gave up everything in the book, and started out with all DIY homegrown fingering, hand positions, and technique. And those who started out totally on their own, have a tendency to have a harder time learning new licks and new music. It takes a lot longer to step into those shoes, that hasn't been comfortably worn for ages. Mind you, they can be just as - seemingly - swift and virtuosic. I've seen and played with numerous bassists, that just concentrated on funk technique, like slapping, thumbing, and tapping, and they could not play any song that wasn't in any "open string key". They'd "shred" and thumb, pop, slap like crazy and as fast as you played something in F they went "huh?".

And yes, these days, they have these small ailments creeping in, artrithis, tendonitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, tennis arm, mouse arm, frozen fingers whatever. In their ever ongoing quest to just impress on others they played fast as h*ll, and didn't care for the others in the band, or the music as a whole. Ok, these people are around 50s now and above, and brought up and brainwashed by all these 80s shredders both on bass, and guitar. I have encountered less of these ailments with people like you Brad, who concentrated on relaxeing and playing the "right" positions in the first place, mind you, from a very young age, like pre-teens where it is much easier to soak in everything right like a sponge.

The others, have told me "yeah, but you only learn to play like someone else if you keep it "right" all of the time, you have no own identity" and give vaugely flamboyant and bohemic excuses, answers and explanations and (artist-soul) cognitive bias, whatever to make themselves a false illusion that their own homegrown and idiosyncratic playing styles will make and take them to stardom. Whimsical, loopy, and flaky excuses for bad "posture" so to speak. They think that brainwasing you into the right wrist positions, and hand fingering also forces you to play a certain music style, while it is all just about not getting cramped up with lactic acid in the end, no matter what music style you're playing. They see some kind of bad conformist into this regimen. That you end up being brainwashed and molded into one playing style or music style, just because you're learning some right fingering which just has to do with pure callistenics and really nothing at all with actual music.

 

[JRA]

Not quite at 50 years yet but I've been playing since the 70's. No playing related issues.

good for you: i stand (or sit!) corrected!

i'm 67: thousands of gigs while making a living from music: i'm retired now, but i was not a "hobbyist!" could account for some of the difference.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Check this out!
I just got back from seeing The Hiromi Trio play down in Evanston.
I'm expecting to see Anthony Jackson on stage with Hiromi and Simon Phillips.
But it's not A.J. on bass!
But guess who it is?

 

[Honch]

Check this out!
I just got back from seeing The Hiromi Trio play down in Evanston.
I'm expecting to see Anthony Jackson on stage with Hiromi and Simon Phillips.
But it's not A.J. on bass!
But guess who it is?
View attachment 1087154

Can't see can't hear, but I wouldn't be that surprised if it was Hadrien Feraud.

 

[GlennRH]

The footstool used by classical guitarists can be a great ally to any bassist who sits to practise.

I got one of them for free from the shop where I'd bought a bass.

The store manager was so tickled that I wanted to keep my right-hand wrist straight and that I'd made the connection to classical guitarists' standard of sitting to play with left foot on a footstool that he just gave me the footstool. All I had to do was ask. I could see the free footstool in his eyes as we spoke about it.

I no longer sit to practise. Even so, the footstool + straight-wrist technique used by classical guitarists could be quite helpful to any bassist who does sit while practising.