hey 1SHOT,...
please explain the difference between your stance concerning this case as opposed to the case in Florida. the shooter in Florida was told to Stand-Down and someone was killed, yet you have backed the shooter.
IMHO, that's murder and not SYG!
Okay, I'm gonna try and explain my stance on why I feel one way about one and another about the other the best I can put it into words.
I feel in this case the guy was a bully, I think he went looking for trouble and found it. I believe he knew exactly what he'd do in the event that these guys at the party would have the audacity to challenge his authority.
I think he thought that he was completely justified if he could get them to come after him and was going to use the law as a free ticket to assert himself.
I don't see this being the case in Florida.
After listening to the 911 calls (The real ones, NOT the crap that the media tried to claim was the actual tapes) it was evident that there was no racial motivations behind it.
He was NEVER instructed to stop, He was told "we don't NEED you to do that" That is NOT a police issued order.
Not to mention, the operator is not in any position of authority to be dishing out orders to the general public.
This is also America, we are not under constant force by our government, if he wanted to follow him all day long that's his business. TM could get irritated, he could get mad, he could get angry, but he can not get physically violent.
Just as anyone else the only thing he could do under law is to call the police or leave the area.
It is also VERY evident that he was NOT following him but more so trying to simply keep knowledge of his whereabouts to relay to police either over the phone or when they finally arrived.
TM based on Z's own words had fled the scene and made his way in the direction of his fathers g/f's house. so much so that Z had completely lost sight of him.
Now if you look at the map of that neighborhood you can clearly see that is TM was able to break that corner he had ample time to make it to his home and be safe.
It is my belief that instead he decided to double back and return to the supposed area where he had just fled.
That tells me that he returned with intent on facing trouble head on. When he could have gone home instead.
I believe based on what I've seen that TM ran around the outside corner of houses and cut back through the common area and up through the backs of the two rows landing him face to face with Z at which point there was an altercation.
Witnesses placed TM on top of Z, Real unedited photos show obvious signs of trauma to Z that seem to be inline with his and witnesses statements.
It to me is evident that Z was the one on the tape screaming for help while he was getting beat up on the ground.
I just don't see where he did anything that warranted TM to attack him legally. And well once TM attacked him he in Florida has the right to use whatever force necessary to preserve his own life.
The question is did Z escalate the situation????
I don't see that he did. I see that he attempted to keep sight on a suspicious person that he had just seen looking into peoples property and acting very strange.
In the beginning of the tape you can hear Z saying that TM is reaching into his waistline for something and staring Z down and walking towards Z, that leaves me feeling like TM was attempting to antagonize Z at first and makes his doubling back seem VERY much in character for someone like that. This kid was looking for trouble and also found it.
It appears Z had in fact followed TM's path to the rear of the houses by the fence, then told 911 he didn't see him any longer at which point the asked are you following and he says "I was yes" "but he took off and is gone now" they say we don't need you to do that. At this point he clearly is not even able to follow him as he does not know where he ran to. and shortly after the call ends, leaving me to think he was then heading back to his vehicle (Altercation over right?)
No on his way back he walks past the opening where the backs of the two rows meet and sure as poop, there is the suspicious guy who has doubled back to confront Z and all hell breaks loose.
In my opinion the only way for TM to have gotten back to that location was if he decided to return to it. That makes him the aggressor at that point, the situation would have ended had he not done that.
Okay I'm sure TalkBass doesn't want this whole Florida issue getting fired back up so I'd be more than happy to continue this with you and am always for healthy debate as long as it is healthy and civil.
More than happy to go over it all through PM
