How are swung 16th notes played?

[Russell L]

In case the OP is asking about 16ths in the context of an 8th note swing piece:
If I were looking at a standard 8th note swing chart that had a few 16th note figures in it, I'd not over analyze it, just play them like 16th notes in a way that fits with the feel of the phrase.

The formulaic 'swing 8ths = first and last notes of a triplet' is just an approximation. How much 'swing' you put in varies with tempo and interpretation.

Right on. (To me).

 

[Groove Master]

This is true, but the importance here is CONTEXT. If you're doing a funky little groove thing, then yes, all of these ideas regarding swung sixteenth notes hold true.

However, it's important to distinguish "swung sixteenths" to "sixteenths in swing music." Stylistically, in all swung eighth note music, sixteenths are played straight. This mainly has to do with the fact that the note durations are a lot closer, and any gradient within those note durations gives the feeling of being very herky jerky (unless for a very specific "double time" effect). Just like swung eighths straighten out at high tempos, all sixteenths are straightened out.

This is very different stylistically to all the fancy swung sixteenth funk music that everybody else is talking about.

Good points.

At first i thought the OP was talking about how to swing 16th notes but it is not clear at all what he's asking for and his knowledge level of theory and music notation. That is the reason this thread does bring a lot of useful infos but in a lot of different directions because the OP's question is a little bit ambiguous imo. May be a more precise example from the OP would help us to focus on a clear answer ;-)

 

[placedesjardins]

It sounds like "boom-bah boom-bah boom-bah boom-bah..."

 

[Groove Master]

It sounds like "boom-bah boom-bah boom-bah boom-bah..."

LOL

Sounds like an elephant dance

 

[AndyMania]

That's how I understand them.

Not sure why the term "equals" is confusing you guys but I was referring to Alvaro's example above. From what I see, 4 "swung" 16th notes are equal to playing the 1,3,4,6 in the sextuplet/group of 6. According to his example.

Let me clarify what I am trying to post:

I am studying this piece of sheet music entitled: "A Traditional Jazz Solo" from this book called "Jazzology"

At the top, it says "Moderate Swing" with a tempo of 1 quarter note equals 100. In the parentheses it states that 2 8th notes are equal to the first and last note of a triplet.

Now I understand how swung 8ths notes should sound and I believe Mambo stated that there are different "strengths" of swing. Which I now know.

So all I wanted to know is what swung 16ths should sound like, thats all.

From my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, the harder the swing (in 8th notes), the more "compressed" the 1& will be and the distance from & to the next beat will be greater right?

 

[AndyMania]

This is true, but the importance here is CONTEXT. If you're doing a funky little groove thing, then yes, all of these ideas regarding swung sixteenth notes hold true.

However, it's important to distinguish "swung sixteenths" to "sixteenths in swing music." Stylistically, in all swung eighth note music, sixteenths are played straight. This mainly has to do with the fact that the note durations are a lot closer, and any gradient within those note durations gives the feeling of being very herky jerky (unless for a very specific "double time" effect). Just like swung eighths straighten out at high tempos, all sixteenths are straightened out.

This is very different stylistically to all the fancy swung sixteenth funk music that everybody else is talking about.

Whoa, whoa.......ok hold on. So the piece I was referring to where the piece is labeled "Moderate Swing", only the 8th notes are swung and the 16ths are played normally??

This is new info for me. Good to know. Also, would it be indicated at the start of the sheet music if 16ths are meant to be swung?

 

[Fergie Fulton]

So all I wanted to know is what swung 16ths should sound like, thats all.

From my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, the harder the swing (in 8th notes), the more "compressed" the 1& will be and the distance from & to the next beat will be greater right?

In a nut shell yes, but in theory the way swing is read is not always the way each player will play it. Swing is recognised as a feel, so many, and myself included, play any groupinging of notes that are to be swung in a certain way. Say for example on a chord sheet, a numbers system, or even just being told a song title but "swing it" I have no real groupings to read, but I know how to swing my part. I may even add or remove notes to make my swing work better for me in its delivery.....or would that be my delivery.

Swing is like a persons accent, it has variations, but the information of what is being said is always there to hear and understand ( I hope )
So people can swing better than others because they way they hear it fits better.

So if your question is one of interpretation, then find your own swing style by listening and developing from the players you admire that do it well. If your question is one do notation, you will find variations of what it "looks like" but in general they are all looking for the same thing....a swing feel.
Within that notation I may be called "rolled or you are asked to play it as "rolled 8ths, as usual there may be no indication of what you roll, but is expected that you know how to do it...and that was the earlier point that some may do it better than others.
It's like putting the actor to the part because his voice fits, Patrick Stewart makes a great Captain Picard, a believable one even, because he was chosen for the part because of his voice, where as say Sly Stallone and his accent would not. The words are the same but one does it better.

I suppose on reflection I have many go to options for when I swing,
A slow swing, a straight swing, a fast swing, a lazy swing, etc, even a swing shuffle of sorts. I make a choice and interprete it my way until corrected, because what I am hearing is not always a MD or composers vision of what is written...especially more so with swing, jazz or blues.