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How Bad is Clipping...

felis

felis

Jul 31, 2013
2,194
2,196
Midwest, USA
#1
.
... for your amp or speaker?

I'm not positive, but pretty sure that when I crank the input's gain, and get that type of clicking sound, that it's clipping.
It does it to various degrees with different basses - some give off a loud thumping click, and some hardly at all.

I really like that sound - it's so punchy. But I'm not sure if going after it will damage my amp or speaker.

Is there some kind of an fx unit or something, that would give off that type of sound without damaging anything?
 
#3
CL400Peavey said:
Clipping doesnt hurt a speaker, but over powering it does. Pre gain distortion shouldnt hurt an amp. Clipping the power section shouldnt hurt the amp either, as long as it can manage the heat. Pushing that hard does strain the amp, and continued use may expose the weakest link.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. By clipping an amp or amp section, you are squaring off the wave. THAT DOES hurt a speaker. It builds up heat. It causes Distortion (in a bad way) and can burn the coils. I recone drivers and have seen my share of what "Clipping" does to a driver. Now, to be fair, a red light that comes on periodically, is ok. That's where most prefer to run their amps. BUT if that Clip Light stays on, glowing red... I charge by the piece, folks.
 
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#7
An fdeck HPF3 or over the pond the Thumpinator can help eliminate the trouble. It is usually very low frequencies that you don't hear moving the cones wildly. Heavy-handed technique combined with pickups too close to the strings make this much worse and either one of those HPF (high pass filter)s will help a lot.

https://sites.google.com/site/hpftechllc/home/hpf-pre
Link Removed
 
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#8
I'm still pretty much a beginner, and am not up on the terminology too much.

But I was doing exactly what you said - raised the pickups way high, cranked the input gain, and when I really laid into it, especially on the low string, I was getting that sound.
It only does it when I crank the gain up though. That's what made me think it was amp related.

I thought that's what people meant when they talked about 'thump' in regards to a bass sound - ha ha. It sounds like a thump to me.
 
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#10
Scott Waldy said:
By clipping an amp or amp section, you are squaring off the wave. THAT DOES hurt a speaker...
Click to expand...
I respectfully disagree. Overdriving (past excursion or thermal limits) damages speakers. A squared-off wave is just another waveform, and can be safely reproduced. It's the amplitude that matters, not the presence or absence of odd harmonic frequencies. You can toast a voice coil with a Beethoven Symphony or a sine wave. I've done both.
 
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#11
Clipping is not dangerous to bass drivers provided adequate precautions are taken. JBL addressed this very nicely in this whitepaper: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] (last page, referencing MI applications with a distorted (meaning clipped) signal)

A 50% derating from published driver thermal power ratings is the most commonly used derating factor.
 
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#12
Scott Waldy said:
I respectfully disagree. By clipping an amp or amp section, you are squaring off the wave. THAT DOES hurt a speaker. It builds up heat. It causes Distortion (in a bad way) and can burn the coils. I recone drivers and have seen my share of what "Clipping" does to a driver. Now, to be fair, a red light that comes on periodically, is ok. That's where most prefer to run their amps. BUT if that Clip Light stays on, glowing red... I charge by the piece, folks.
Click to expand...

Square waves do not hurt speakers. If distortion damaged speakers then every guitard on the planet would have turned their rig in to a pile of ash years ago.

Burning voice coils is still a form of over powering. Distortion increases the average power pushed through the speakers. Some speakers can handle that increase, some can not.

If you hooked a 6 watt guitar amp up to an 810, and ran it full out, would you be burning up voice coils?
 
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#13
The 'clicking' may or may not be the preamp clipping (I have had at least one preamp that acted as such when clipped), or it could be as B-String says. I would guess its more likely the preamp. And no, square waves aren't dangerous. People need to quit repeating old wives tales.
 
#14
Scott Waldy said:
I respectfully disagree. By clipping an amp or amp section, you are squaring off the wave. THAT DOES hurt a speaker. It builds up heat. It causes Distortion (in a bad way) and can burn the coils. I recone drivers and have seen my share of what "Clipping" does to a driver. Now, to be fair, a red light that comes on periodically, is ok. That's where most prefer to run their amps. BUT if that Clip Light stays on, glowing red... I charge by the piece, folks.
Click to expand...

No. Loudspeaker drivers build up heat whether the signal is clipped or not. More than 90% of the signal's power put into a driver turns into waste heat, and <10% turns into acoustic energy. That's efficiency roughly equivalent to an incandescent light bulb.
 
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#15
Regretfully, I stand corrected. Thank you for the information.

CL400Peavey said:
Square waves do not hurt speakers. If distortion damaged speakers then every guitard on the planet would have turned their rig in to a pile of ash years ago.

Burning voice coils is still a form of over powering. Distortion increases the average power pushed through the speakers. Some speakers can handle that increase, some can not.

If you hooked a 6 watt guitar amp up to an 810, and ran it full out, would you be burning up voice coils?
Click to expand...

It answer to the 6w. Guitar question is ... "No, the speakers can handle the wattage/heat.

So, let me understand this, When I'm doing the recones, and am seeing burnt coils, it is not from driving the amp (Clipping) into a Square Wave/Distortion but the overpowering of the speaker? Than how does this occur when I'm doing an 18" and know it was driven with 900w. (The amp is capable of 1800. Soft clipping. It is feeding a Dual 18" sub) and the driver itself is rated at 3600 Peak? Am i missing something here?

Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread.
 
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#17
So, let me understand this, When I'm doing the recones, and am seeing burnt coils, it is not from driving the amp (Clipping) into a Square Wave/Distortion but the overpowering of the speaker?
Click to expand...

That is correct.

Depending on the amp, overpowering the driver might be accompanied by clipping and distortion, but excessive "clean" power can be just as harmful in its heating effect.
 
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#18
Regretfully, I stand corrected. Thank you for the information.

CL400Peavey said:
Square waves do not hurt speakers. If distortion damaged speakers then every guitard on the planet would have turned their rig in to a pile of ash years ago.

Burning voice coils is still a form of over powering. Distortion increases the average power pushed through the speakers. Some speakers can handle that increase, some can not.

If you hooked a 6 watt guitar amp up to an 810, and ran it full out, would you be burning up voice coils?
Click to expand...

It answer to the 6w. Guitar question is ... "NO, the speakers can handle the wattage/heat.

So, let me understand this, When I'm doing the recones, and am seeing burnt coils, it is not from driving the amp (Clipping) into a Square Wave/Distortion but the overpowering of the speaker?
 
#19
Scott Waldy said:
Regretfully, I stand corrected. Thank you for the information.

It answer to the 6w. Guitar question is ... "NO, the speakers can handle the wattage/heat.

So, let me understand this, When I'm doing the recones, and am seeing burnt coils, it is not from driving the amp (Clipping) into a Square Wave/Distortion but the overpowering of the speaker?
Click to expand...

There are two ways you can over power a speaker. One is exceeding its thermal power handling. Burning the voice coils. This can be done by any wave form, as long as there is enough energy to exceed the capacity of the voice coil's heat shedding system.

The second way to over power the speaker is exceeding the mechanical limits of the speaker. This can any mechanical failing of a component in the speaker, cone, surround/suspension. This is actually more common, as thermal limits tend to be much larger than mechanical limits.
 
#20
Regretfully, I stand corrected. Thank you for the information.

CL400Peavey said:
Square waves do not hurt speakers. If distortion damaged speakers then every guitard on the planet would have turned their rig in to a pile of ash years ago.

Burning voice coils is still a form of over powering. Distortion increases the average power pushed through the speakers. Some speakers can handle that increase, some can not.

If you hooked a 6 watt guitar amp up to an 810, and ran it full out, would you be burning up voice coils?
Click to expand...

It answer to the 6w. Guitar question is ... "NO, the speakers can handle the wattage/heat.

So, let me understand this, When I'm doing the recones, and am seeing burnt coils, it is not from driving the amp (Clipping) into a Square Wave/Distortion but the overpowering of the speaker?
 

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