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how bass parts affect your sound?

#41
Rodent said:
1. hands/technique
2. preamp
3. hands/technique
4. pickups
5. hands/technique
6. all of the other bass construction materials and techniques which each add a small portion to the overall package
7. hands/technique


I say this due to hearing several of my clients play certain demo instruments I have on-hand. each bass takes on a new sound depending on who is playing it. I hear the same sound consistency when a client switches from one bass to the next ... sure there are subtle differences between different basses, but nothing as extreme as the difference between bassists on a specific bass.

a great player can make a cheap bass sound outstanding ... a poor player can make an outstanding bass sound cheap
Click to expand...

Aint THAT the truth. But most people don't realize this. Young or newbie players come on here asking about what bass they can buy to make them sound "metal" or like their favorite pro, or whatever. Much more important than the bass, the musician himself is what makes the biggest difference in tone. I'm not saying I am any super pro, but after playing for 29 years I can play a bass halfway decently. Give me a cheap bass and cheap amp and I can make it sound good. No problem at all. I rarely ever change pickups, have never changed a preamp. I've experimented with a few types of strings though. Because I realize if I want a "different" or "better" tone, I need to play it differently. Use or don't use a pick. Play harder/softer, closer to the bridge or neck or whatever. Go for these things first. MUCH more influential on your sound than changing parts.
 
#42
ggunn said:
But of course a big reason for the difference in tone in this example is the different placement of the pickups. Two identical pickups, one at the neck and one at the bridge, will sound very different. Or is that what you are saying?
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That's exactly what I'm saying! :)

I think I understand why many underestimate the effect of pickups. They're comparing apples to apples: f'r instance, replacing a Fender P-bass pickup with a DiMarzio P-bass pickup. I agree that this change will have a limited effect.

But with many custom (or even non-custom) basses you have a choice of pickups, pickup types, and location... so apples vs. apples doesn't apply. Example: Kevin Jones has one of the coolest Sadowskys I'm aware of. That's true for a few reasons, but one is pickups: it has a P-bass body with JJ pickups. Kevin's Sadowsky happens to have a maple top over swamp ash body and maple/ebony neck but the bottom line is that, regardless of body shape and woods used, it's going to have a J-bass tonal vibe. That of course is due to the pickups. If Kevin had chosen a single P-bass pickup instead of the JJ config, then it would have the P-bass vibe.

Acoustically, the tone of Kevin's bass would not change regardless of whether he'd chosen P, JJ, PJ, reverse PJ, or HH pickups. But an electric solidbody is useless without the pickups: that's why it's defined as an electric instrument, not acoustic. So, pickups and pickup location define the tone of an instrument (preamp too, if applicable).

A P-bass, J-bass, and Stingray are similar enough in construction: solidbody bolt-on, alder or ash, maple neck, maple or rosewood 'board. The difference in the signature tone of these basses is due to pickups and electronics, not their acoustic tone. Yes, wood contributes to tone, but pickups (and location) define it. Example: if a beginner is looking for a bass that has the signature slap/funk tone, or the Jaco tone, people don't recommend "ash/maple" or "alder/rosewood". They recommend "Jazz bass" (Fender or clone).
 
#43
BassDudeSA said:
Aint THAT the truth. But most people don't realize this. Young or newbie players come on here asking about what bass they can buy to make them sound "metal" or like their favorite pro, or whatever. Much more important than the bass, the musician himself is what makes the biggest difference in tone. I'm not saying I am any super pro, but after playing for 29 years I can play a bass halfway decently. Give me a cheap bass and cheap amp and I can make it sound good.
Click to expand...

Can you make a Telecaster bass sound like Marcus Miller or Jaco Pastorius? :p

The player is certainly important, but so is the instrument. Jamerson's flats-wound bass was called the Funk Machine, but it wouldn't work for Marcus Miller or Victor Wooten. Yeah, those players would probably find a way to sound good on the Funk Machine (not a given due to the high action and heavy gauge strings!), but they would absolutely sound very different, tonally.
 
#45
The Penguin said:
Try it, it does sound killer. I've clamped a bridge and strings to a workbench and it sounded great, open strings only as I didn't fret the workbench.
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I can't wait to see you perform with it live. With a 300 pound workbench, I betcha you get sustain out the wazoo. What kind of wood is your workbench made out of? Are its legs through, set, or bolt-on? Do you use straplocks? ;^)
 
#46
Rodent said:
1. hands/technique
2. preamp
3. hands/technique
4. pickups
5. hands/technique
6. all of the other bass construction materials and techniques which each add a small portion to the overall package
7. hands/technique


I say this due to hearing several of my clients play certain demo instruments I have on-hand. each bass takes on a new sound depending on who is playing it. I hear the same sound consistency when a client switches from one bass to the next ... sure there are subtle differences between different basses, but nothing as extreme as the difference between bassists on a specific bass.

a great player can make a cheap bass sound outstanding ... a poor player can make an outstanding bass sound cheap

all the best,

R
Click to expand...


This is where I both agree and disagree - I think we're blurring the issue of tone vs voicing.
Yes, an experienced player can coax the best possible tones that can be had out of a cheap bass...that great player can manipulate excellent muting, articulation, plucking the strings closer or towards the bridge or neck, and all sorts of other seasoned techniques, but I don't care how much they want that bass to sound like a Fodera, Wal or a Stingray, it ain't gonna happen. This is where pickups, their placement & preamp voicings come into play. A great set of hands can do some wonderful things, but only with the voicing that is already in that bass, they can do nothing to change the voicing of that bass into the electronics/signature sound of another bass altogether. These are two very distinctly different topics in my mind - YMMV. :)

Let me clarify my definition of tone vs. voicing:

Tone (comes from the hands) = Anyone can make a bass sound a little brighter, a little warmer, a little more mid-punchy through playing technique...it's not difficult.

Voicing (comes from pickups/electronics) = Someone please grab a Hofner Beatle bass knockoff and make it replicate the exact sound/voicing of my Stingray, then make it sound exactly like a Wal or a Smith bass. Please post these soundclips, I'd love to hear it.

Anyone who claims they can do "both" with just their hands is very disillusioned. If this were the case, I would run as fast as I could down to Walmart, buy the cheapest bass I could find and be able to replicate the exact signature voicing/tone of any other bass ever created on the planet with just my hands - pretty cool trick.
 
#47
ggunn said:
I can't wait to see you perform with it live. With a 300 pound workbench, I betcha you get sustain out the wazoo. What kind of wood is your workbench made out of? Are its legs through, set, or bolt-on? Do you use straplocks? ;^)
Click to expand...
I would never perform with it... unless I could find the right hurdy gurdy player.
 
#48
stingray69 said:
This is where I both agree and disagree - I think we're blurring the issue of tone vs voicing.
Yes, an experienced player can coax the best possible tones that can be had out of a cheap bass...
Click to expand...
However if a cheap bass (pre CBS Fender) becomes real expensive it will take on a new tone of an expensive bass ;)

:hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:
:hyper: :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

:D
 
#49
I hate these threads. One gets posted at least once every two months, and I always get sucked up into it. No, not this time...I'm not going to get sucked up into it. I will just say that YOU are the most important aspect of tone on any bass, and anyone who denies it is wrong. Strings, body woods, knobs...nothing matters but you.
 
#50
Fuzzbass said:
Can you make a Telecaster bass sound like Marcus Miller or Jaco Pastorius? :p

The player is certainly important, but so is the instrument. Jamerson's flats-wound bass was called the Funk Machine, but it wouldn't work for Marcus Miller or Victor Wooten. Yeah, those players would probably find a way to sound good on the Funk Machine (not a given due to the high action and heavy gauge strings!), but they would absolutely sound very different, tonally.
Click to expand...

Whose talking about making anyone sound like Jaco or Marcus or Victor or making any of them sound like another? We are only talking here about what makes a difference to us and our instruments. What I am saying, as well as a few others is that if you want a different tone, or to improve your tone, look in the mirror first as THAT is what really dictates YOUR sound, for better or worse. And that can be proven easily by handing the same bass, plugged into the same amp, and then having ten different players play. Each will sound different. In some situations you'll hear that equipment sound great, in others it won't. Just work on adjusting your focus on that mirror before anything else. Then you'll really make a positive change in the sound of your gear.
 
#51
BassDudeSA said:
And that can be proven easily by handing the same bass, plugged into the same amp, and then having ten different players play. Each will sound different. In some situations you'll hear that equipment sound great, in others it won't.
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Sure. And if they're all playing a P-bass, then you'll get ten different flavors of P-bass tones.

OTOH, if someone prefers the sound of a Rickenbacker, Stingray, J-bass (etc), then the smart thing to do is acquire the appropriate instrument.

Nobody's saying the player isn't important contributor to tone. Nobody's saying the secret to becoming a better player is to spend money on gear: we all (should) know that the gear doesn't play itself. The simple fact is, when it comes to tone, gear makes a big difference too. Yeah, I always sound like "me" in terms of style, but my tone varies significantly depending on which bass I'm playing, what kind of strings are on it, etc etc.
 
#52
stingray69 said:
This is where I both agree and disagree - I think we're blurring the issue of tone vs voicing.
Yes, an experienced player can coax the best possible tones that can be had out of a cheap bass...that great player can manipulate excellent muting, articulation, plucking the strings closer or towards the bridge or neck, and all sorts of other seasoned techniques, but I don't care how much they want that bass to sound like a Fodera, Wal or a Stingray, it ain't gonna happen. This is where pickups, their placement & preamp voicings come into play. A great set of hands can do some wonderful things, but only with the voicing that is already in that bass, they can do nothing to change the voicing of that bass into the electronics/signature sound of another bass altogether. These are two very distinctly different topics in my mind - YMMV. :)

....
Click to expand...
Nice post. The player's important, but not all-important. Different basses sound different even when played by the same person.
 
#53
Fuzzbass said:
Sure. And if they're all playing a P-bass, then you'll get ten different flavors of P-bass tones.

OTOH, if someone prefers the sound of a Rickenbacker, Stingray, J-bass (etc), then the smart thing to do is acquire the appropriate instrument.
Click to expand...

Exactly! Nice post.


Once again this is where pickup & preamp voicings comes into play. The reason that P-bass will never sound identical to a 'Ric, 'Ray, or Jazz is because the pickups are totally different, in a different location, and the preamp in a P-Bass (if there) is voiced nothing like those other basses.
 
#54
stingray69 said:
Exactly! Nice post.


Once again this is where pickup & preamp voicings comes into play. The reason that P-bass will never sound identical to a 'Ric, 'Ray, or Jazz is because the pickups are totally different, in a different location, and the preamp in a P-Bass (if there) is voiced nothing like those other basses.
Click to expand...

I've heard so much of this "P" sound business, or Rick sound or "J" sound or whatever. Give me any of these, I'll adjust them to how I like my sound (including amp EQ) and then you won't hear much of a difference between them in the end result. Believe me, I've done this for years and I know there is little difference. The feel is different between the Fenders and Rick (for example) but the end result of the tones are very similar. Granted, this is not true in all basses or those that are drastically different. I've played Ricks, I did not notice anything that different other than the feel. I really don't ever count subtleties. But people seem to make mountains out of molehills in this area.
 
#56
I haven't read all of the previous posts, but I've spent a good part of the last couple of years looking for "the sound" with a guitar - probably tried at least 40 speakers and speaker combinations, different brands and sizes. IME the most influencial components on the sound you hear are (not in order):
1) pickups (not all pickups of similar appearance sound alike)
2) speakers
3) strings
4) tube brand
5) speaker enclosure
6) your fingers

I'd come up with a variable speaker system for a 4 ohm load using 5 speakers: one 8 ohm 15, two 16 ohm 10s, and two 16 ohm 12s. It could run 1x15 + 2x10, 1x15 + 2x12, or 2x10 + 2x12, all giving a 4 ohm total load. All of them sounded great (to me). Then I switched from Mullard output tubes to Matsu****o (sp) - the sound wasn't what it was, but it was still very good. I wanted to save the Mullards.

Recently a string broke, so I put on a set of a lighter guage that I had. The sound didn't change - it disappeared - GONE - out the window. There could be three variables there, ligher strings, new strings, and maybe a different brand.

As far as different woods go, I doubt if they'd have any significant impact that couldn't be had with messing with tone controls. Sure, a maple body will sound brighter than a mahogany body, but modifying a tone circuit will have more effect IMO.
 
#59
I'm not sure anyone will agree with me on this, but I've always been of the school that it's not really any specific material that affects the tone of a bass, but the way all the materials used to make it interact with each other.




Also a lot to with the "tone in your hands" ;)
 
#60
RL6 said:
A guy at the LDLD forum actually did put strings and pick ups on a 2X6 and documented the experiment with photos and sound bites.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
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I seem to recall when Les Paul made the prototype for his electric guitar it was basically a 4x4 with the pick-up, fretboard,strings and bridge attatched. He later added wings to give it the shape of a guitar. He was concerned with sustain. I think he even said it would work on a slab of cement. He called the guitar "the log." Someone correct me if i got anything wrong.
 

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