how bass parts affect your sound?

[The Penguin]

I seem to recall when Les Paul made the prototype for his electric guitar it was basically a 4x4 with the pick-up, fretboard,strings and bridge attatched. He later added wings to give it the shape of a guitar. He was concerned with sustain. I think he even said it would work on a slab of cement. He called the guitar "the log." Someone correct me if i got anything wrong.

The Log

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[Basshole]

Strings
Technique
Pickups
Pickup placement
Preamp (not something I tend to use...but, if used, I think it slots here)
Neck construction/composition (woods, if wooden)
Hardware
Body composition (woods)/construction
Weather
Planet alignment

I left out amplification, because if you're recording, you may not be using one. If you use an amp, frankly, it could slot in the above order just about anywhere, depending on the amount of coloration your particular amp tends to impart.

As for the effects of wood, please see my comments in this thread, as I think I might actually be making some sense:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3392545#post3392545

Yes, you can make a bass (or guitar) out of concrete. It would sound a lot like a Steinberger.

 

[jucas]

1. hands/technique
2. preamp
3. hands/technique
4. pickups
5. hands/technique
6. all of the other bass construction materials and techniques which each add a small portion to the overall package
7. hands/technique


I say this due to hearing several of my clients play certain demo instruments I have on-hand. each bass takes on a new sound depending on who is playing it. I hear the same sound consistency when a client switches from one bass to the next ... sure there are subtle differences between different basses, but nothing as extreme as the difference between bassists on a specific bass.

a great player can make a cheap bass sound outstanding ... a poor player can make an outstanding bass sound cheap

all the best,

R

True, but I think I'd rather swap out my pickups than change bassists.

 

[GlennW]

I've had the same Strat pickup in the neck position following guitars:
Fender Strat, alder body
Gibson SG STD, 1 1/4" mahogany body
fake Strat, maple body
fake Strat, mahogany body
fake Tele, basswood body
Epi ET-270?, unknown body
Peavey Predator, poplar body

That pickup always sounded/sounds like that pickup - not exactly the same in each instance, but the tonal differences were very minor and I'd guess those differences were more because of strings, pots, and caps than body woods.

 

[Basshole]

Guitars don't count. I'm actually not kidding. The inertial forces involved in the relatively light guitar strings don't create as much involvement with the bodies and necks as the higher mass/inertial forces of the significantly larger bass strings. There is some effect, but by comparison, it's almost negligible IMHO. Still, hollow bodied guitars will have a characteristic tone, because their light bodies can be easily coerced by even the relatively lighter guitar strings.

 

[Rano Bass]

I can take a P bass (or J, take your pick), and without changing anything except the strings use it to play country (flats) or classic rock (nickel RW) or heavy metal (SS RW), and it will sound right for the music.

On the other hand, I can take a P with flats, and it doesn't matter what pickup I put in it I can't make it sound right for heavy metal (to my ears).

Of course YMMV.

Well.... maybe you can't but Steve Harris has played a P with flats for decades, he plays metal and he sounds pretty good i think

 

[GlennW]

I think guitars do count. Wood is wood, pickups are pickups, magnetic fields are magnetic fields, and electricity is electricity. Sure, basses and guitars aren't the same, but I don't see why the greater mass of the bass and its strings would generate any significantly different results.

Maybe someone's tried the same bass pickup in a bunch of different basses made from different woods. That's the only way to know.

 

[Basshole]

I think guitars do count. Wood is wood, pickups are pickups, magnetic fields are magnetic fields, and electricity is electricity. Sure, basses and guitars aren't the same, but I don't see why the greater mass of the bass and its strings would generate any significantly different results.

Maybe someone's tried the same bass pickup in a bunch of different basses made from different woods. That's the only way to know.

OK...so we're talking about the transferance of inertial forces, and you don't understand how mass plays a part?



More mass, greater inertia.

Oh, and people like Mike Tobias (a friend of mine) HAVE experimented with the SAME pickup and various tone woods. If you ever run into the man, ask him about it...he really knows his wood.

 

[GlennW]

I'm trying to gasp your point regarding interia. I don't remember much from physics, but I think interia is that force which would keep a moving object moving in the same direction at the same speed as long as no other forces acted upon it. If that's right, then it looks like inertia would only apply to the strings since nothing else should be moving on the bass. And if that's right, I can see (imagine) how different woods with different properties would have differing results in how long a string continues to vibrate.

As I understand it interta has more to do with sustain than tone - but you specified "transferance of inertia". I would think that the bridge (weight, material, saddle construction, method of anchoring, approach angle of the strings, etc) would have more effect on the sound (and transferance of inertia) than the type of wood it's attached to.

I'm not saying all woods sound alike, but I am saying that I believe that when dealing with electric guitars and basses the greatest variations in sound will be derived from the electrical parts.

In the hypothetical case of two basses: #1 is a mahogany EB-O with the notorious mudbucker by the neck. #2 is a maple EB-O with a JB pickup by the neck. Same bridge, etc...

I'd suspect that if you switched the pickups the maple/mudbucker would sound much more like the mahogany/mudbucker than the maple/JB, and the mahogany/JB would sound more like the maple/JB than the maple budbucker. Can't say for sure - never tried it.

Edit: Back to the bridge...an extreme example would be to take either of the make believe EB-O's and substitute a Beatle Bass bridge. I'd expect more difference from that than the body wood.

 

[Showdown]

Well.... maybe you can't but Steve Harris has played a P with flats for decades, he plays metal and he sounds pretty good i think

I expected someone to bring him up...... He does sound good with flats, but from what I've heard his signature flats are pretty bright sounding for flats. At any rate my point is that strings can make a significant difference in the sound of a bass. Put some Fender flats on a bass, record it, then put some GHS Super Steels on the same bass and record it, then compare the recordings.

 

[The Penguin]

OK...so we're talking about the transferance of inertial forces, and you don't understand how mass plays a part?



More mass, greater inertia.

Isn't pretend science great More inertia would be less affected by body wood damping. Think it through.

 

[GlennW]

I was thinking about that too, and inertia, as I understand it, isn't transferred at all - it dissipates.

 

[avid]

Page 110 of American Basses by Jim Roberts features an article by Philip Kubicki about "Neck wood and Tone." Phil invites the reader to strike a string and gently place the headstock against a wall then turn the bass around and strike the same string and place the bottom of the bass against the wall. Guess what happens?

Here is the link to the book I am quoting from.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Basses-Illustrated-History-Players/dp/0879307218/sr=8-1/qid=1160019154/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8860441-8255307?ie=UTF8&s=books

 

[Basshole]

I was thinking about that too, and inertia, as I understand it, isn't transferred at all - it dissipates.

Inertia can't be transferred, huh?

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[Basshole]

Isn't pretend science great More inertia would be less affected by body wood damping. Think it through.

Pretend science?

Read what I linked to previously. Don't simply disagree just to be your usual disagreaable self, Penguin.

 

[GlennW]

Well, I've yet to see the bridge move any noticeable distance from the inertia transferred from the string.

 

[Basshole]

Penguin,

When the body or neck vibrates (due to lack of rigidity), what sets the body or neck in motion to vibrate? The grace of God?

No, it has to steal vibrational energy from the string.

A larger string has the capacity to coerce the body more, and set up these vibrational resonances. Depending on the "tone" of the wood, that's exactly the tonal composition or "signature" that will be "stolen" from the string's vibration. The wood acts like a subtractive filter. A hollow body will vibrate more, and thus more impulse will be "stolen" from the string.

Another thing to realize: higher notes take less energy to produce. A body or neck that is more rigid, will resonate at a higher frequency, and thus steal less total energy from the string. This reduces the involvement (amount of energy transferred back and forth) between the string and body. Yet another reason why guitars are less affected by woods than basses.

Now, to make matters even more complex, energy doesn't just flow from the string to the body...the body gives some of it's energy back...coloring the sound yet some more. In actuality, energy flows back and forth between the body (neck) and string constantly. You can even watch it, if you play in front of a strobe source (like a TV). You can watch the energy swell from the string, to the body, and then back again. You can actually watch all sorts of dynamics - even the nodal points along the string become apparent in front of a stroboscopic background.

Spend less time trying to be such a wiseass, Penguin. I'm only trying to share some knowledge.

 

[Basshole]

Well, I've yet to see the bridge move any noticeable distance from the inertia transferred from the string.

It would require a high-speed movie camera with an absurd frame rate, and a stroboscopic background to see such subtle vibrations with the naked eye. If the bridge didn't move, you wouldn't be able to hear the sound of the instrument off the back of the guitar. Like was suggested above, further proof: while playing a note, put the body up against a wall. Hear anything? How do you think the energy to make the wall vibrate arrives there? Western Union?

 

[DeeDee]

a great player can make a cheap bass sound outstanding ... a poor player can make an outstanding bass sound cheap

R

+1

that's why i don't deserve a sadowsky, as much as i crave one

 

[Rano Bass]

At any rate my point is that strings can make a significant difference in the sound of a bass. Put some Fender flats on a bass, record it, then put some GHS Super Steels on the same bass and record it, then compare the recordings.

A jazz sounds like a jazz, a musicman sounds like a musicman, a precision sounds lika a precision, diferent strings just make it sound brighter or darker, but it sounds like the same bass to me. IMO.