I usually have no problem when singing and playing guitar. But when i try to sing and play bass all kinds of wires get crossed in my brain, just can't do both melody and rythm. Do you guys have any tips to overcome this?
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How did you manage to start singing?
- Thread starter GPett
- Start date
Start with some songs whose bass lines line up rhythmically with the vocal part. For parts that are heavily syncopated I think it's mostly a matter of slowing things down to the point where the differences in sixteenth notes (for example) are really clear and you have space to operate. Then slowly bring up to speed. Syncopated parts are tough. Some people seem to have more of a natural inclination but I think for most of us it is quite a difficult task.
What are some of the kinds of songs you want to do?
What are some of the kinds of songs you want to do?
Yup, basslines can be a lot more difficult than strum-strum-strum guitar.
Break it down into small bits, even a line of lyrics at a time. Practice it really slowly, try to figure out where things fit together or not. Write out the rhythms and count them if you think it will help.
It also really helps me if I know the lyrics really well. If I have to start thinking about words, it takes up too much brain function and screws me up.
I also "sing" just in my head while I play bass, try to hear it as much as I can before I actually start practicing singing out loud.
Hope some of that might help!
Break it down into small bits, even a line of lyrics at a time. Practice it really slowly, try to figure out where things fit together or not. Write out the rhythms and count them if you think it will help.
It also really helps me if I know the lyrics really well. If I have to start thinking about words, it takes up too much brain function and screws me up.
I also "sing" just in my head while I play bass, try to hear it as much as I can before I actually start practicing singing out loud.
Hope some of that might help!
not a particular song right now, i just want to build my chops because where i live good singers are in high demand. Just want to be more useful in a band setting. i'm actually trying out some pixies songs, i figured that the easy basslines would be helpful, but i'm still struggling
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The real trick to singing and playing bass is muscle memory… either for the singing or the playing. You need to know the song so well that at least one of the two components is 2nd nature. Pick a song you’ve played a thousand times and can do it without thinking. That’ll be easier to sing to because you’re only thinking about one thing.
Start with a I IV V song like Louie Louie. I guarantee you can sing and play that because it’s only 3 chords and the rhythm, while different from the vocal, isn’t too far off the melody. Build from there with easy, super familiar songs that aren’t too fast. Before you know it, you’ll be singing & playing Tom Sawyer.
Start with a I IV V song like Louie Louie. I guarantee you can sing and play that because it’s only 3 chords and the rhythm, while different from the vocal, isn’t too far off the melody. Build from there with easy, super familiar songs that aren’t too fast. Before you know it, you’ll be singing & playing Tom Sawyer.
First things first..
You need to be able to play without looking down. Theres muscle memory involved.
It only comes with lots of practice. And you gotta know the words really well.
After all these years, I find singing actually helps my playing.
You need to be able to play without looking down. Theres muscle memory involved.
It only comes with lots of practice. And you gotta know the words really well.
After all these years, I find singing actually helps my playing.
Master both parts independently. Then break both parts down and figure out how to combine them.
Consider how singing and playing compares to playing piano or drums. With piano, you play separate parts with your left and right hand. With drums you play separate parts with each foot and each hand. Consider writing out the bass and drum parts in a grand staff, so you can see how they fit together. Practice small chunks of music as slowly as necessary to get the job done. Practice, practice, practice.
Once you start to get it down, spend most of your time on sections that you continue to struggle with. For example if you have a song down except one or two bars, spend most of your time on the problematic one or two bars.
My perception is bass tends to be harder for two reasons.
1. Bass rhythms often have syncopations that cut across vocal rhythms, rather than aligning.
2. Bass usually requires a lot of aftertouch, while rhythm guitar frequently does not. However, IMHO vocals tend to require quite a bit of after touch as well.
Aftertouch is whatever you do to shape notes after the initial attack.
If possible, start with easier songs. This will allow you to get started and build confidence. If you have the necessary natural ability, it will get easier with time and you can move on to incrementally harder songs.
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For me a metronome can be useful. Write out the bass and vocal part in a grand staff, then put hash marks to show where the beats are. Slow down the metronome and see how it all fits together. It's sort of a musical version of Tetris in that you are trying to fit different shapes into the space defined by the metronome.
Yep, singing and playing generally needs to be practiced until the integration of both processes is automated.
I would start with some songs that have bass lines which consist of only quarter or eighth notes - or heck, even whole notes. No syncopation. Build up some confidence with those before tackling anything more complex. Even the simplest things can take a bit of time because the trust won't be there at the beginning, and you'll be distracted by whatever part (bass or vocal) you're not actively concentrating on.
I agree that being able to visualize the rhythms (through writing them out) can be really helpful. It's amazing to me how there can be a lack of clarity regarding exactly where things fall (between bass and vocals) and visualizing the notes can make a big difference.
This post has been up for years. I save the link for every time the subject comes up:
Lots of great suggestions above. I only started really learning to sing and play a couple of years ago and I just simply started with songs that I was pretty familiar with from growing up. So lots of 90s tunes for me as the melody and lyrics were mostly already known and then I'd just do a lot of practicing. Eventually I found it just sort of clicked and became a lot easier. Now I can sing along to tunes while learning the bass part at the same time as long as I am familiar with the melody and lyrics.
Some songs are harder to sing and play bass than others. In any endeavor, it's best to start with the simplest examples or the kind of things that seem easiest and most do-able TO YOU based on your vocal range, experience, bass playing ability and experience. What works for me is let's say I have FIVE brain cells. Some would accept that as FACT, btw. Anyway. My approach is to learn the bass part so well (with it's section A, section B, and repeatable structures) that it takes only one of my five brain cells to reliably get the bass part right. That leaves me with 4 brain cells left to focus on the mechanics of singing as well as remembering the lyrics which is usually a linear beginning to end story (although with repeatable choruses) and the highly individual vocal contours that rarely repeat, exactly.
Others may approach it differently. I hope that helps to start, anyway.
For many years I sang lead and backing vocals in a five-piece blues band. Singing and playing bass is, I believe, more difficult than singing and playing guitar. It took me a while to get the hang of it. What helped was that most blues bass parts are repetitive patterns that become “muscle memorized” after a while. But it takes a while.
Lately, over the past year, I have gotten involved in open mic events, where I sing and play guitar. I had never done this solo before in my nearly 60-year “career” in guitar, bass and mandolin. It’s been an eye-opener to get up there solo and sing and play guitar.mi never had the nerve before. The first couple attempts were terrifying, and didn’t go that well. But I’ve kept after it, and gotten much better, to the point where I look forward to it now.
Lately, over the past year, I have gotten involved in open mic events, where I sing and play guitar. I had never done this solo before in my nearly 60-year “career” in guitar, bass and mandolin. It’s been an eye-opener to get up there solo and sing and play guitar.mi never had the nerve before. The first couple attempts were terrifying, and didn’t go that well. But I’ve kept after it, and gotten much better, to the point where I look forward to it now.
Yes I definitely approach it differently. You suggest keeping singing and playing separate. My approach is to integrate and automate all related processes, so that it's more like one task.
When I just play bass, much of the process is automated. Playing bases actually integrate a wide variety of discrete movements. There is way too much going on the think about all of it, but with practice you don't have to. It happens automatically.
When I just sing, much of the process is automated. This includes all of the discrete movements required to produce and shape the sounds, as well as recall the lyrics.
When I sing and play, I have to figure how to integrate and automate both processes as if they are one.
Generally when I am performing my mind cycles through different mental processes. So at any given moment, my attention may be focused on some aspect of signing or some aspect of playing the bass. However, if both processes are not adequately integrated and automated, then it's likely I will cave on one or both parts. Basically my conscious mental processes have to sort of float over a foundation of integration and automation for it all to work out.
I sing some backups and it really depends on the song. There are some songs I shy away from, even though they could use it, just because I know it will be really hard. And some are not too difficult and it really depends on what the bass is doing.
I also have the problem that I am horrible at memorizing lyrics (and reading them is not really feasible). I have to just drill the singing on its own so I do not have to think of it. This can be for hours and hours. Same with the bassline; it has to be on automatic. Then if they are hard to play together I slow it way down so that I can really hear the rhythmic differences and sing and play them with intension. Then I slowly bring it up to speed. This means looping it over and over. It could be just phrase by phrase or a whole section.
I also have the problem that I am horrible at memorizing lyrics (and reading them is not really feasible). I have to just drill the singing on its own so I do not have to think of it. This can be for hours and hours. Same with the bassline; it has to be on automatic. Then if they are hard to play together I slow it way down so that I can really hear the rhythmic differences and sing and play them with intension. Then I slowly bring it up to speed. This means looping it over and over. It could be just phrase by phrase or a whole section.
…
It's a rhythmic independence puzzle.
singing and playing bass require 2 specific, different rhythms to be executed simultaneously.
for me I have to work out each rhythm independently , know exactly how both goes,
and line them up to see where they share beats and where they fall in between each other
then I usually practice singing and clapping to the bass rhythm...slowly
singing and playing bass require 2 specific, different rhythms to be executed simultaneously.
for me I have to work out each rhythm independently , know exactly how both goes,
and line them up to see where they share beats and where they fall in between each other
then I usually practice singing and clapping to the bass rhythm...slowly
Same here, guitar player from 14 to 24 years old, then stopped music for 20 years, now playing bass since COVID. Today I would define myself an acceptable player (poopy side reader, but decent pocket, decent ears), still impossible to sing if I'm not playing just roots on the beat and singing very easy melody not syncopated.
Bass sucks !!!(kidding)
Bass sucks !!!(kidding)
- Apr 18, 2008
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Honestly, it’s just like learning anything with any complexity: Practice Practice Practice. When I first started singing lead it blew my mind, because I was basically trying to do two different melody lines at once - one on bass and one with my voice. But with practice it becomes much easier. Good practice suggestions above. I just want to emphasize that it will probably take more than a little practice. And that’s okay. I find the most rewarding things in life take more than a little effort. That’s part of the reason they’re so rewarding!
