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How do I break bad news to our singer?

#21
RedLeg said:
why can't you just be honest with him instead of hiring a third party producer to come in. seems like a sh1tty thing to do to one of your mates. a third party has spoken, the crowd. dont wuss out
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Part of the reason is that there is the possiblity he can be saved with some technique changes.. maybe stage presence etc.

There's a very good possibility the entire band needs a kick in the shorts.

Remember it's a VERY delicate balance if they still want him to play guitar.

I can't stress how impactful it has been to have a 3rd party producer come in to work with our band (we do $$$$$ casino gigs). They may see/hear something that the members don't

It's not being maniupulative.. it's called production.

Much of the same reason smart folks send their recordings out for a final mix down (even if they own a $$$$ studio).

When we crticize others.. makes sense to put ourselves on the line.

Tim
 
#22
ive had to fire 3 singers before ... not fun ... especially when they have became friends ..... anyway you do it will be bad to him , so be nice and tell him exactly why and what you plan to do . offer him to keep his job as a guitarist and offer to let him sing 3 or 4 a night ..... maybe it will be ok . if not move on ....
 
#23
Remember that a good singer is harder to find than a good guitarist, IME anyway. If you fire him as the singer and he doesn't want to be your guitarist then you'll still probably find a new guitarist before you find a singer. I'd just be up front and honest with him and have a couple people or band mates with you when you say it to him. that way you have confirmation and he won't just take it as your opinion only but the opinion of the band. Honesty is the best policy IMO. Just don't be a jerk about it. Nothing positive will happen that way. Let him know he's still a valuable part of the band as a musician, just not a singer.
 
#24
MNAirHead said:
I can't stress how impactful it has been to have a 3rd party producer come in to work with our band (we do $$$$$ casino gigs). They may see/hear something that the members don't

It's not being maniupulative.. it's called production.

Much of the same reason smart folks send their recordings out for a final mix down (even if they own a $$$$ studio).
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It's manipulative if you are doing so under the auspices of improving the band when your actual intent is to push this guy off vocals.

Not to mention, what good is it to spend money on a producer when the goal is to change the band anyway?

If that's an avenue they want to explore, they should do it AFTER they replace their guitarist with a better singer.
 
#25
+1 on recording him and having him listen to himself. Was in a band not too long ago whose singer was also the main guitar player (we were a 3-piece). He wasn't a terrible singer by any means, but he had problems with consistency and was a much better screamer than singer in general.

I think he started to realize where he was weak after recording a couple of shows, but it was really driven home after we spent months working on a demo in a pro studio. Mind you, we got a pretty decent result, but the process really showed him where he was weak.

I've played in 2 bands with him since then, including my current band, in which he has focused on playing guitar and seems quite happy with the situation.
 
#26
saying that... Do they HAVE to be a good singer.....

Pick your top fav bands...

Not in any order...

Oasis - Liam Gallagher... Shockin vocals... ace front man
The Stone Roses - If Ian Brown can still sell out a gig... anyone can sing!
James - Tim Booth doesn't always stay in key, ACE front man. Beautiful Vocal lines and what a dancer!
Rage - He don't even sing...
NIRVANA - Shockin vocals... but my god, what a front man...

saying that... Do they HAVE to be a good singer.....

Pick your top fav bands...

Not in any order...

Oasis - Liam Gallagher... Shockin vocals... ace front man
The Stone Roses - If Ian Brown can still sell out a gig... anyone can sing!
James - Tim Booth doesn't always stay in key, ACE front man. Beautiful Vocal lines.
Rage - He don't even sing...
NIRVANA - Shockin vocals... but my god, what a front man...

If he's got it... let him do it! Balls to the voice... We are bassist! what do we care?! long as the track sounds solid... :-)
 
#27
I dont see anything wrong with just teling him that he is changing positions on the team. It ain't like your firing him, you're re aligining the players to form a stronger unit.

It's for the betterment of the group, if the guy has a problem with playing a different position on the team, then you may not want him at all.
It honestly wouldn't bother me one bit if the band wanted to utilize my best assets, I would expect it from people who really wanted to play the best music possible.

What ever happened to just being honest and speaking the truth?
 
#28
Maybe reviewing each member of the group and how each one needs to change/improve for the betterment of the band would be a good way to frame the situation. Possibly there are members who should be singing lead/backup vocals that aren't. Or other members who should be taking lessons to improve their technique.

Since everyone can improve for the betterment of the band, maybe that will be acceptable for the guitar player. Can he sing harmony for backup vocals? If the guitar player's ego is tied to being "lead singer", that's what will blow things up. If that's the bottom line, there's really no best way to do let him. Best you can do is be positive about it and see if he can work with it. Like was said before, you're not kicking him out of the band.
 
#29
Stumbo said:
Maybe reviewing each member of the group and how each one needs to change/improve for the betterment of the band would be a good way to frame the situation. Possibly there are members who should be singing lead/backup vocals that aren't. Or other members who should be taking lessons to improve their technique.

Since everyone can improve for the betterment of the band, maybe that will be acceptable for the guitar player. Can he sing harmony for backup vocals? If the guitar player's ego is tied to being "lead singer", that's what will blow things up. If that's the bottom line, there's really no best way to do let him. Best you can do is be positive about it and see if he can work with it. Like was said before, you're not kicking him out of the band.
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This is the intent of hiring an independent 3rd party producer... I didnt' put it as well as you.

It's amazing in bands how they'll hog pile on one member when everyone is iffy.

If improving is the objective, everyone should be on the critique line.

Tim
 
#30
You could try a different approach, more business like and non-confrontational.

EX: "Good news, we're gonna start auditioning lead singers this week to replace 'so and so'(original singer), so we can all get back to our regular roles." (turn to the guitar guy) "Plus we really miss you at guitar mate, and so do the fans!"

"I've written an ad and plan to place it today. This is a great positive development for us especially since all the feedback lately has been about our need for a lead singer. Here's our opportunity to find a good one that fits us and allows us to rock on at full strength."

Give that a try.
 
#32
DeepBottom said:
You could try a different approach, more business like and non-confrontational.

EX: "Good news, we're gonna start auditioning lead singers this week to replace 'so and so'(original singer), so we can all get back to our regular roles." (turn to the guitar guy) "Plus we really miss you at guitar mate, and so do the fans!"

"I've written an ad and plan to place it today. This is a great positive development for us especially since all the feedback lately has been about our need for a lead singer. Here's our opportunity to find a good one that fits us and allows us to rock on at full strength."

Give that a try.
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That`s the best idea I`ve heard so far besides the other people who just said to grow a pair and tell him what`s what. Personally, I would of lost my temper with that guy by now. I have no patience when it comes to people who don`t listen to reason and who just hold others back.

I`d be straight and tell him, "Look, you`re a wonderful guitarist and I can`t imagine anyone better for the job than you, and it was great how you stepped up to do vocals while we were looking for a new singer. However, it`s time that we`ve moved on and found a proper singer for the gig. You don`t cut it and it`s time you put the band before yourself. You knew this was only a temporary thing so don`t act suprised by what we`re saying. We need you back on lead so we can all get back on track. You definantly can do background if you still want to pitch in some harmonies, but you don`t cut it as a lead singer, but you sure make one hell of a guitarist." If he still gives striff and wants to be a frontman then you can continue with, "You`re the lead guitar so you definantly get to be out front more than the lot of us."

Anyways, best of luck. I would of killed the guy by now myself.:bassist:
 
#34
DanFold said:
saying that... Do they HAVE to be a good singer.....

If he's got it... let him do it! Balls to the voice..
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I agree with ^^^^^^ - the caveat being that you guys are an original band. If you are covers and the vocals really suck then you might have to get a singer.

I can see that most of the posts are saying to get another singing and how to do that respectfully. But if you guys are doing originals and he can pull it off then why not give him a shot? After all, no one is going to convince me that Lemmy or Dave Mustaine are good vocalists. Yet the vocals work within the context of their bands. A singer is also about fronting the band and bringing the right attitude.
 
#36
So....what exactly did you say and how did yo say it?
Seems like you done did a good job since he was "cool" about it?.

What exactly did he say? Sometimes people will be "cool" about things and hide their true feelings.
 

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