How do you critique a defensive musician?

[wildhorse]

I ended up calling him yesterday and apologizing for my email, and my relentless pursuit for his perfection. LOL!

What came next, blew me away. He told me that he hasn't been practicing any of the band's material outside of rehearsals, because he just views the band as a reason to get together with friends and get away from the girlfriend.

His reasoning is that when they lost their first drummer and lead singer earlier this year, it took the wind out of his sails. They weren't able to keep gigging and make money. He said that he isn't very motivated to put much time in because he fears that it will happen all over again. He also told me that he doesn't care for the song much.

Sounds like you need to have a pow wow with the whole band to find out what their motivation is. Do they want to gig or just be a garage band? In the same type situation after a year and a half I quit the band because I had other money making gigs and didn't have time to just fool around.

 

[MegaSwing]

This situation sounds more dysfunctional with each new revelation.

Danger, straight ahead.

 

[WRBass]

I agree that the problems in this band are deeper than just that bass line.

Lafave, I went back and looked at the YouTube video link you sent him and it's not like the original recording or the live version that Mo'Phat posted.

Assuming it's the repeating riff that's in dispute, here is how Dirk Lance played it on the album version:

And sometimes he plays it like this:

 

[BassGuyFL]

Here`s the thing about cover songs that most people are missing -

You either A) play the song note for note like the original recording or most popular live performance, or B) you completely rewrite the song so that it becomes more or less your own creation so that when people realize it`s X song they go, "Holy $4!7, I didn`t know they were playing that!!" Like playing a Led Zeppelin tune reggae styled... Anything else just seems unprofessional, sloppy, or makes people think you`re lacking in talent. There`s no reason for the entire band to lose face because of one players, IMHO.

Since everyone else is doing it spot on, he either A) needs to fall in line B) rework the song into a new and creative form and present it to the band, or C) get the heck out. It`s a simple song anyways.

+1. There's a difference between taking a little liberty with the tune and "I'm just gonna play whatever I want and don't care who doesn't like it" esp. when the rest of the band plays it as written. It makes the difference between a garage band and a good band.

Plus also people higher up the food chain than him thought the bass line fit like the original band leader, the producer of the CD, the record company, etc. It was just more obvious to the OP also being a bassist.

 

[nortonrider]

Assuming it's the repeating riff that's in dispute, here is how Dirk Lance played it on the album version:

And sometimes he plays it like this:

How did you do that?

 

[Stumbo]

I ended up calling him yesterday and apologizing for my email, and my relentless pursuit for his perfection. LOL!

What came next, blew me away. He told me that he hasn't been practicing any of the band's material outside of rehearsals, because he just views the band as a reason to get together with friends and get away from the girlfriend.

His reasoning is that when they lost their first drummer and lead singer earlier this year, it took the wind out of his sails. They weren't able to keep gigging and make money. He said that he isn't very motivated to put much time in because he fears that it will happen all over again. He also told me that he doesn't care for the song much.

Now that you got to the bottom of this incident that is getting more ludicrous as the minutes go by, +1 on the band meeting to discuss what's really going on.

Btw, what is the gig situation?

If the bass player is so worried about losing members of the band in the future, so much so that it affects his motivation for being a musician, it sounds like he's in the wrong business.

 

[bassplayertom77]

Open up a dialogue so you're not talking at them, but rather, with them. Or quit.

 

[cassanova]

A band meeting is definitely in order. Whole thing could probably have been avoided too.

If he were a hired gun then yes, he better play the line that I want. But this is a band, everyone gets to put in their creative juices on an original. He's playing the bass on this one and feeling what he's feeling. Ya just gotta let some crap slide sometimes. Was the line he came up with really that bad to where an audience would think it sucked or just you?

 

[Herrlster]

I didn't bother to read passed the 1st page so I don't know how many times this has been said. You're the keyboard player/lead singer, he's the bass player. You deal with the keys and vocals and let him deal with the bass. Simple as that, its not your territory.

 

[WRBass]

How did you do that?

1.) I found a GuitarPro version of the song which seemed to have that one line correct. 2.) Took a screen shot, and cropped it. 3.) Edited the original to get the second line. 4.) Took a screen shot, and cropped it. 5.) Posted the results in the reply.

 

[Jazz Ad]

To me it looks like somebody's going to get fired from this band pretty soon. I don't think it will be the bass player.

 

[ChrisB2]

STFU and play the keys.

this


When the band said "we like both ways," that was basically your cue to do the above.

Aren't you the new guy?

If I were your bandleader, CL would have a new "keyboardist needed" ad.


After reading all pages, you seem more level headed on TB than you did in your emails to the bass player. However, I do think you were over the line with your emails to him. IMO

 

[lafave]

I am a pretty level headed guy.

I'll admit, after rereading my email to him and really thinking about it, my frustrations with him definitely showed.

I totally get the, worry about the keys only comments. That is how I typically operate. For example, another song that I brought to the table was a heavier version of Stranger Things Have Happened from Foo Fighters. Since there was no bass line in it to begin with, I didn't and don't care what he came up with for it. His line for it is great.

I'll keep working on posting the song on YouTube. He doesn't like the song, so maybe he wants it to sound like crap.

Next practice is on Tuesday. I'll let you how know how it goes.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I am a pretty level headed guy.

I'll admit, after rereading my email to him and really thinking about it, my frustrations with him definitely showed.

I totally get the, worry about the keys only comments. That is how I typically operate. For example, another song that I brought to the table was a heavier version of Stranger Things Have Happened from Foo Fighters. Since there was no bass line in it to begin with, I didn't and don't care what he came up with for it. His line for it is great.

I'll keep working on posting the song on YouTube. He doesn't like the song, so maybe he wants it to sound like crap.

You're beating a dead horse. Drop the song, quit the band, or both. I'd have fired you by now.

 

[stflbn]

If you have no intention of playing bass, then STFU and play the keys.

This pretty much nails it.

How many other threads from bass-players have their been complaining about other band members telling them how to play their instruments? A Lot.

You're doing it also.


.

 

[Stumbo]

As Dr. Phil says: "Do you want to right or do want to be happy?"

 

[totallyfrozen]

How? Not the way you did it, for sure. I'd have told you to do it yourself ... and taken the door. If you have no intention of playing bass, then STFU and play the keys. Really. I wonder how they made 2 years without you? I'm not saying the song shouldn't be played correctly, but you need to work on your people skills.

+1
I understand that your email responses didn't look like enough to set the guy off that much; however, I'm not overlooking the fact that this was not the first conversation that you had with him about this. He's probably sick of hearing about it from you. IMO, you were being rude and overly sensitive (as was he).

Leave him alone. Being "lead" singer doesn't make someone a leader or even the music director. Those guys were together for 2 years without you and now your ruining the fun for the bass player. I think you should expect to get fired from this band in the near future.

 

[totallyfrozen]

BTW - I'm not playing keys on this song, just singing.


I have asked the others what they think and they basically stay neutral.

Then they don't care and it's a personal war between you (the new guy) and their long time bass player. I think you should drop it.

Our rhythm guitarist told me that there is no critiquing him because he gets bent out of shape no matter how gently you lay it on him.

That's a personal attack and a character insult of the bass player. They RG shouldn't do that and neither should you. Here's the scary part about gossipers. If they RG is saying that behind the bass players back to you, what is he saying behind your back to the rest of the band?
Stay away from that stuff.

The bassist has brought his own handful of songs to the band and he talks major $hit when someone doesn't play it the way he wants. I figured that it was fair for me to point out what he was doing wrong based on his actions.

So are you the singer? or are you Jesus? Who told you that it was your job or even your right to even the score? Sounds like your struggling with a superiority complex a little bit. You're not the Song Sheriff. As you have seen, it's not working out well for you to try to push this guy around. You're just starting trouble in the band, IMO.

As far as firing him, it's not really up to me because I'm not a founding member.

Exactly. Like I said before...YOU are in danger of being fired probably more than he is. You might want to cool your jets.

Don't get me wrong, the band works great together, but I can't seem to not let his take on the song completely distract me.

Perhaps, you should simply drop this song out of the repertoire. It's a source of conflict in the band.

Good luck on this, bro. I've been in your shoes (a keys player/singer in a band that didn't cover the songs right). I just had to learn to have as much fun as I could with what we played. We still got gigs and money so it all worked out fine.
Seriously, if you're singing the tune and the bass line is distracting you, then just drop the song. Or learn to follow a different part of the song (e.g. rhythm guitar or drums, etc.)

 

[Stumbo]

So are you the singer?

If the OP is the singer, IMO, then there is a case to be made about how the song is played and arranged.

 

[z6e9n]

I have been playing in a cover band like this for a couple of months now. Though every one in the band is at least 10 years older than I am and have been playing their respective instruments for considerably longer than I have been playing bass. I thought when I joined that everyone would have their s*** together. That didn't happen. I finally just gave up and went with the status quo. Playing in a band is supposed to be fun. Worrying about things that won't change will make you miserable(and it sounds like this won't change). It also sounds like the only thing you can do is accept the band for what it is or find a new one. I honestly empathize with your situation and hope everything works out for you.