How do you decide that a take is good enough?

[moderatelyfunky]

When you're not working as a hired gun and aren't burning through tape thanks to DAWs, how do you decide what is a keeper?

Along those lines, is there a point where you decide that playing through an entire song with an acceptable live take isn't going to happen in a reasonable amount of time?

With the quarantine, I'm collaborating with some old friends and don't want to hold up the process with my parts, but then again I'm playing the most important instrument.

Might be too subjective, but I'm curious if folks have come up with rules of thumb for non-professional types who want to sound professional, but be reasonably productive. And happy.

 

[bassbrad]

If time and the situation allows I prefer to cut my tracks live with the other players and then be the producer/critic/engineer another day.
First make a clone track for safety, rule 1!
I then like to listen to the whole song for any mistakes and make notes to fix those.
Then listen to the bass part, does it flow, groove, swing, break and hit when and where it needs to?
Any notes too long or too short?
Does it clash with the vocal or any other part?
Is there a fill you need to get rid of?
Is there a spot for a nice fill?

What if you played a different bass?
What if you played a different bass line?

 

[Jeff Scott]

How do you decide that a take is good enough?

When I can no longer make my part more perfect than it already is. Depending on where the recording may end up, this is your legacy, musically speaking. Are you fine with "good enough"?

 

[foal30]

Do I like the feel

Do the other players sound better with my part

 

[SteveC]

In my limited experience, my first take (save for a obvious mistake) Is usually my best.

 

[SLIV]

I'm bored with perfection. I like when music has some flaws to the performance. The flaws grow on you so you may not like them at first.

It's an unusual perspective. Probably not helpful. : )

 

[garp]

I'm bored with perfection. I like when music has some flaws to the performance. The flaws grow on you so you may not like them at first.

It's an unusual perspective. Probably not helpful. : )

Actually, I think it’s very helpful.

I think it’s Voltaire who gets credit for the adage: “Perfect is the enemy of good.”

The more I listen to isolated tracks from many of my bass heroes, the more I’m convinced that obsessing over every little detail is a complete waste of time.

I’ll retrack for obvious flubs or technical issues, but none of that “Take 23” nonsense for me.

 

[lermgalieu]

I am firmly of the belief that the more my judgment and competitive instincts creep in, the more my conscious mind is dictating my creativity and feel. I am not saying I don't *think* about my lines, but at the point of performance, I don't want to be thinking. That's why first/second takes often feel so good. I'd rather keep an early take and fix blatant flaws than obsess over the "perfect take." There is no such thing.

 

[SactoBass]

Actually, I think it’s very helpful.

I think it’s Voltaire who gets credit for the adage: “Perfect is the enemy of good.”

The more I listen to isolated tracks from many of my bass heroes, the more I’m convinced that obsessing over every little detail is a complete waste of time.

I’ll retrack for obvious flubs or technical issues, but none of that “Take 23” nonsense for me.

 

[Ewo]

IMHO/YMMV/IME, having done a fair amount of recording in both the analog and digital eras:

It's _real_ easy to beat the basic tracks to death, so there's no life/energy/feel to them.

 

[superheavyfunk]

A painter needs to know when to put down their brush. For me, it's when it's "good enough."

I like to work quickly. I'll generally do no more than three takes of a track and then just pick whichever one is the best. If I'm doing the production at home on my own, I'll sometimes take parts from each take and combine them into one but sometimes that's more work than I'm willing to do - I don't like to sacrifice the feel for "perfection." A song loses something when one gets too far into the weeds, imo.

 

[moderatelyfunky]

Some very thought provoking comments - thanks all.

The idea of an early take and fixing big flubs is something I’m going to try. Another advantage of that might be that I won’t necessarily stop a take at the first screw up. The only time I seem to play the last measure is on a good take and I don’t think that’s a very musical approach.

Where a degree of perfectionism and repetition does help me musically is when I get to a point of knowing a part so well that I can play around with tone and note placement that no one will ever hear. Being inside like that moves me.

 

[Lesfunk]

I usually have to go back and relisten a day or two later to hear the track again with fresh ears.
I often find that improvements can be made
If I’m playing for somebody else, if they’re happy then I’m happy

 

[sing-modulator]

I'm bored with perfection. I like when music has some flaws to the performance. The flaws grow on you so you may not like them at first.

It's an unusual perspective. Probably not helpful. : )

I agree, it isn't just about recording a song, it's about documenting a moment in time/in your life, so it's nice to document any imperfections that give character to a recording. Perfection is for nerds.

 

[Basshappi]

Once the track rocks, leave it alone.

We record all together, the guitarist and I are both DI and may do a few punch ins, if a mistake is really noticeable, but very rarely do a full retake.
If we feel the track didn't have the energy or their were too many mistakes we will just do a whole new take.

The guitarist will do multiple takes of solos while we listen, and make suggestions. Then once we feel good about the feel and flow of it he will do several takes and we keep the best one. Sometimes this comes together fairly quickly, sometimes it doesn't.

We only play original music so it is a very collaborative process.
I should also mention that we are a jamband so most of what we post is completely unedited. The folks who like our music seem to appreciate that we leave the imperfections in and share the performance as it actually happened.

 

[garp]

And given that we're bass players, it's really all about the mix anyway. How did the likes of George Martin, Hugh Padgham, Ted Templeton, Rick Rubin, Mutt Lange et al. all permit stuff to end up on tape that wasn't technically perfect? Simple: It worked.

 

[sing-modulator]

And given that we're bass players, it's really all about the mix anyway. How did the likes of George Martin, Hugh Padgham, Ted Templeton, Rick Rubin, Mutt Lange et al. all permit stuff to end up on tape that wasn't technically perfect? Simple: It worked.

It's not always about playing the perfect take, it's about delivering the song authentically and meaningfully!

 

[Nev375]

This question reminded me of this video. It's great.

 

[BassChuck]

Comments that center around 'good feeling' and 'groove' and other statements concerning art and emotion are very valid, and should be made. However, emotion is difficult to measure. While I wouldn't consider myself a 'studio player' I have recorded well over 200 hours of music in a studio setting. I can tell you two things for sure: 1.) If you hear a mistake on playback, you will never not hear it in the future.
2.) If you've tried a couple times for something and had it not work, you are on a path to diminishing returns and it's best to focus on something else and go back to the problem if your schedule can permit it.
DAW's offer a lot of ways to avoid these problems that were far bigger in the world of tape, but sometimes that can create it's own problems in terms of chasing perfection.
In the end objectivity should win over philosophy.

 

[lermgalieu]

The idea of an early take and fixing big flubs is something I’m going to try.

If I am recording my own takes (I use Logic), I just set the track on cycle and do 2-3 takes without stopping. Then, assuming the one of those takes is mostly decent, I will just use the relevant sections from the other takes. It's easy and seamless, and you don't have to stop if you make a flub. Works unless you mess up the same section all 3 times!!