Yes but I like to the tone of my amp
I like creating IR of my cab miced with SM57 and be able to play alone with headphones and the tone I like
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Yes but I like to the tone of my amp
I like creating IR of my cab miced with SM57 and be able to play alone with headphones and the tone I like
For live playing with PA I think I Will go like that :
No cab micing but the use of a cab sim pedal. In this device I load the IR created with the cab miced with the SM-57.
I can EQ it to boost some low end if needed in the front PA.
And this can be mixed with the pré EQ DI of the amp , but I don't particularly like the tone of a pre EQ DI . No a 50/50 blend for my tastes
But for playing at home alone : I cant use my cab so I use my cab sim pedal only with headphones and I am not blending with DI.
I guess I have to find two sweet spots :
One SM57 tone that has to sound good with DI and one SM57 tone that should be usable alone ( currently this last one if full center micing but I will play on that )
Thanks
No cab micing but the use of a cab sim pedal. In this device I load the IR created with the cab miced with the SM-57.
I can EQ it to boost some low end if needed in the front PA.
And this can be mixed with the pré EQ DI of the amp , but I don't particularly like the tone of a pre EQ DI . No a 50/50 blend for my tastes
But for playing at home alone : I cant use my cab so I use my cab sim pedal only with headphones and I am not blending with DI.
I guess I have to find two sweet spots :
One SM57 tone that has to sound good with DI and one SM57 tone that should be usable alone ( currently this last one if full center micing but I will play on that )
Thanks
To everybody his own...But the above plan seems to be overcomplicated to me.
You will mike a bass cab (equals to loss of certain bass and high frequencies in comparison to line signal).
You will mike it with a mike which is not suited for bass (equals to another-rather significant-loss of bass frequencies).
Then you will use it as IR to send it to your bass amp/cab again (equals to another loss of bass and high frequencies).
What you are planning amounts to three stages of low end and high end roll-offs. I think you will end up with mids-heavy sound which will be difficult to work with for FOH. It will not be cured by sending pre-EQ signal from your amp because it is already after two stages of low end roll-offs. It can be only cured by sending FOH DI pre your cab sim pedal...
I understand that you like your cab and that you want to create IR on the basis of its sound. But your desire to use SM57 for these purposes is beyond my recognition...
This is a quote from Geoff Emerick describing how he mic'ed Paul McCartney's bass amp on Sgt. Pepper when the track was being recorded separately without any concern for bleed from other instruments. The figure-of-eight permitted some room ambience to be captured. His technique for bass was to place the mic on the floor a few feet from the cabinet. It was usually a large diameter condenser mic.
When recording, what you want to do is experiment and see what works best for you. You never know till you try it.
I switched to an AKG C12 set to figure-of-eight. We would record Paul's bass in the middle of Studio Two on the hardwood floor, with the amp miked up from about four or five feet away, as I said, in figure-of-eight, and that added the halo effect by putting a little bit of room around it. You can't really detect it but it's there. I think the bass sounds great on Pepper. I'd been fighting to get a sound like that for ages and I finally got it!
When recording, what you want to do is experiment and see what works best for you. You never know till you try it.
I switched to an AKG C12 set to figure-of-eight. We would record Paul's bass in the middle of Studio Two on the hardwood floor, with the amp miked up from about four or five feet away, as I said, in figure-of-eight, and that added the halo effect by putting a little bit of room around it. You can't really detect it but it's there. I think the bass sounds great on Pepper. I'd been fighting to get a sound like that for ages and I finally got it!
I love blending an SM57 around 50/50 with a line out from my amp head. That is my preferred setup for both live and recording. The line from amp head has the full low range, the SM has extra mid detail slight high-pass effect and the grunt/realness of my speakers-being-pushed sounds.
If you blend with a direct, mic positioning doesnt have to be a science. I definitely explored positioning but didnt find an ultimate golden sweet spot, I think my go-to is a little closer to the edge than center.
I also like using Audix i5 as a "less colored" SM57. Slightly flatter response, picks up more lows than the SM. I also like Sen e906 (more of a full range mic) which has low/high pass switch on it.
If you blend with a direct, mic positioning doesnt have to be a science. I definitely explored positioning but didnt find an ultimate golden sweet spot, I think my go-to is a little closer to the edge than center.
I also like using Audix i5 as a "less colored" SM57. Slightly flatter response, picks up more lows than the SM. I also like Sen e906 (more of a full range mic) which has low/high pass switch on it.
Last edited:
Ho no the cab sim pedal is at the line out of the head
It works fine
Also I didn't precise it but my IR is made From speaker miced + tweeter miced , blended to have super usable tone by itlsef
And + I add some DI signal into this
I won't let anyone hear my DI alone tone ! They HAVE to hear some miced tone
Two mics on two parallel speakers one in the center cone of one speaker. And offset the other to the woofer.. and blend. You want focus mid and meaty low.. shelf the lows at 65hz. As far as 57 that's how lemmy got his tone.. adding a kick drum mic.. or another mic give it more depth.
As I had mentioned above, I like some distance assuming bleed is not an issue.
Why would bleed be an issue?
Because hardly anyone can play a track top to bottom without big punches and computer fixing.
You'd be surprised how many records you hear are not just plug and play.
This idea of moving the bass to align with the kick drum, sampling vocals to move around, and of course the ever present pitch correction and Beat Detective (to create perfect time).
As a dinasaur, I am doing much less engineering these days as I like more of an organic approach.
Not that long ago, a local band would have never walked in the studio with the understanding that someone will fix thier lack of skills.
(said in an old gezzer like voice) In my day, you had to show up and play the damn thing with only a minor punch or two.
A lot of acts these days couldn't play their way out of a paper bag.
This would not be studio players, but groups and artists that are learning their craft.
Also, sometimes the chours should push the groove a little only to get back to the original time on the 2nd verse.
Edit: The only time I've used any Shure mic on bass was at a local level live sound gig. As mentioned above an RE20 or 421 for pro level / studio work for electric bass works well (for me).
Why would bleed be an issue?
Because hardly anyone can play a track top to bottom without big punches and computer fixing.
You'd be surprised how many records you hear are not just plug and play.
This idea of moving the bass to align with the kick drum, sampling vocals to move around, and of course the ever present pitch correction and Beat Detective (to create perfect time).
As a dinasaur, I am doing much less engineering these days as I like more of an organic approach.
Not that long ago, a local band would have never walked in the studio with the understanding that someone will fix thier lack of skills.
(said in an old gezzer like voice) In my day, you had to show up and play the damn thing with only a minor punch or two.
A lot of acts these days couldn't play their way out of a paper bag.
This would not be studio players, but groups and artists that are learning their craft.
Also, sometimes the chours should push the groove a little only to get back to the original time on the 2nd verse.
Edit: The only time I've used any Shure mic on bass was at a local level live sound gig. As mentioned above an RE20 or 421 for pro level / studio work for electric bass works well (for me).
I like some air around the mic as well. I'm usually not a fan of overproduced music.
If you ever have a chance, go into a Forever 21 store and listen to the in-store music that they play. There's also a channel on spotify. I imagine that they have a production line that cranks out their pop drivel. Heavy on pitch correction, digital gimmicks, and editing.
So many singers today post their own youtube videos, based on their following they are brought into a studio to cut tracks. They've never performed beyond their bedrooms. They simply have look that sells. Everything else can be produced.
So sad and so true.
The cute face, tight pants, and the right hair are more important these days than song writing or great performances as fomulaic music contiues...
I, personally, have nothing against cute faces and tight pants...LOL
And I don't remember times when these things were not important in pop music..
This.
The SM57 has a considerable low end drop off, but those sub lows don't always make it into a band mix anyway, as you'd be completing with the bass drum. I'd prefer not to use a 57 myself, but I have recorded with them in the past (and gotten good results).
Close to the cloth (think an inch or two) and a few inches off-centre for me.
Professional live sound guy here... I would NEVER use a 57 on a bass cab. Even with a gun to my head, I would probably just throw the 57 at the guy's face, take his gun, and run away. They mostly sound awful on electric string instruments. They're good on snares if you get the placement right and the drummer doesn't ruin it. And they are VERY placement dependent, and VERY source dependent.
Just about any other mic would probably be better. If you're doing this one time to make an IR to use for practicing, do it right and hire a couple hours of studio time and audition lots of mics and placement. Or you know, just get one off the internet for free like everyone else.
What you really want is a mic that is fairly flat. I mean the point is to get the sound of the speakers, right? In a recording context, I've gotten pretty good results from either the AKG C414 or the Rode NTK (their tube condenser). With those you probably want to pull back a little. In general, I tend to aim about halfway between the center and edge of the cone. But just experiment until you find something you really like. With dynamics, you probably want to be a bit closer, but for recording, as long as you can get a strong signal and not a lot of noise, anything goes. A 609 should be light years better than a 57 and they cost about the same. That's my preferred choice for guitar cabs.
Just about any other mic would probably be better. If you're doing this one time to make an IR to use for practicing, do it right and hire a couple hours of studio time and audition lots of mics and placement. Or you know, just get one off the internet for free like everyone else.
What you really want is a mic that is fairly flat. I mean the point is to get the sound of the speakers, right? In a recording context, I've gotten pretty good results from either the AKG C414 or the Rode NTK (their tube condenser). With those you probably want to pull back a little. In general, I tend to aim about halfway between the center and edge of the cone. But just experiment until you find something you really like. With dynamics, you probably want to be a bit closer, but for recording, as long as you can get a strong signal and not a lot of noise, anything goes. A 609 should be light years better than a 57 and they cost about the same. That's my preferred choice for guitar cabs.
I like it in conjunction with a DI for the lows, but def not what I would use unless it was an emergency.
