How do you teach someone dynamics?

[namboy]

So some backstory, I was asked to join an original band by a singer who was looking for a band instead of just her singing and playing guitar.

We have like 25 originals. They all started out as just jam style when we were getting to know each other and how the singer wanted to have the songs feel. But we have slowly worked out structured parts and such for each song. At least most of us have.

My self and the drummer have played together for about 8 years so we know each other really well and have great dynamics and feel when it comes to music. The singer also thinks we are on it but the problem lies with the guitarist. He's been in bands for 15 years but really can't figure out dynamics. I think it's cause he's so focused on his own sound/effects that he doesn't listen to the rest of the band. He plays the same volume from the first bar to the last bar of every song and seems to have only 2 strumming patterns. We've had like 5 gigs so far this December and he only plays a solo on 2 of our songs cause he says the music falls flat if he solos even thought the singer plays acoustic guitar.

So how do I teach this guy
1. Dynamics
2. How to play with a band

TL/DR
guitarist can play as part of a band and has no dynamics how do I teach him to be better?

 

[JonathanPDX]

The big question is: Does he WANT to learn new things?

If he's played in bands for 15 years and has not grown beyond his limited abilities, what makes you think this is the moment when he's going to break through and start developing new skills and practicing things he's never worked on before? Has he expressed interest in learning from you?

 

[buldog5151bass]

You and the drummer have to take things down in a song. If he doesn't follow, keep getting softer until you stop playing. If he doesn't follow after you are way down, stop, and ask why he didn't follow. At least then you will know if he is hopeless.

 

[Sam Evans]

"I think it's cause he's so focused on his own sound/effects that he doesn't listen to the rest of the band."

Yep, that's it right there. I've played with that type before, and if my (admittedly limited and anecdotal) experience is any indication, there isn't changing someone like that. They just don't care what the band / song sound like, so they'll never be motivated to change anything about how they play.

 

[Wood and Wire]

And if you really want to hammer the message home in simplest possible terms (they built an entire career on LOUD | quiet | LOUD , so pick just about anything from their back catalogue) :




Arranging the songs with that structure in mind, will go a long way ; but if the guy refuses to actually use his ears, and be part of the ensemble, then he doesn't have much of a future in the band.

 

[DirtDog]

Dynamics are like foreplay. If you hammer away at it 100% from the start, you’re the only one enjoying it.

 

[sean_on_bass]

All you can do is try to make the suggestion and see what happens. Do it right there in the rehearsal, not any other time. If they are receptive to feedback, they will give it a try. If they aren't, you may need a new guitarist or just deal with the issue. Sadly alot of guitar players don't have real ensemble experience, which alot of us learned in band class in school.

 

[Michael Milner]

Without putting too fine a point on it, is there a reason you just don't get a better guitarist?

 

[DJ Bebop]

Without putting too fine a point on it, is there a reason you just don't get a better guitarist?

 

[J Wilson]

The short answer: You can't.

I'd begin looking for a grown-up more sympatico to the experience and outlook of the rest of you,

I went through more than a few times of 'he plays great, BUT . . . . ' and never changed any of them.

 

[Jazzdogg]

So some backstory, I was asked to join an original band by a singer who was looking for a band instead of just her singing and playing guitar.

We have like 25 originals. They all started out as just jam style when we were getting to know each other and how the singer wanted to have the songs feel. But we have slowly worked out structured parts and such for each song. At least most of us have.

My self and the drummer have played together for about 8 years so we know each other really well and have great dynamics and feel when it comes to music. The singer also thinks we are on it but the problem lies with the guitarist. He's been in bands for 15 years but really can't figure out dynamics. I think it's cause he's so focused on his own sound/effects that he doesn't listen to the rest of the band. He plays the same volume from the first bar to the last bar of every song and seems to have only 2 strumming patterns. We've had like 5 gigs so far this December and he only plays a solo on 2 of our songs cause he says the music falls flat if he solos even thought the singer plays acoustic guitar.

So how do I teach this guy
1. Dynamics
2. How to play with a band

TL/DR
guitarist can play as part of a band and has no dynamics how do I teach him to be better?

He will change his behavior only after he decides to. This usually coincides with him finding someone from whom he will willingly accept criticism.

 

[4Mal]

I would start in rehearsal, call it emphasis… say let’s add some emphasis and build in a little drama.

keep it a positive topic. Ya catch more flies with honey and all that…

you aren’t gonna teach or coach. you’re gonna lead him to the truth.

use visual cueing to bring the band down when it seems like the right time

don’t try too hard. don’t beat your head against a wall either… when teaching an old dog something new, theres a fine line between where you want to go and nagging….

 

[Sharko]

Turn off his compressor?

 

[Joebone]

Interesting. He listens enough not to want to kill the intensity by soloing, but also isn't getting the dynamic thing. Leaving aside the extent to which this is an artifact of extreme compression for most of the Pop music we've heard over the last 50 years, he just may not be getting the notion of dynamic development. And of greater concern is the report that he only has two basic rhythm strums down - that could be a vibe killer over the course of 25 tunes. If he's interested in growth, I suggest a crash course in rhythm playing by listening to everything recorded or produced by Nile Rodgers over the course of his work with Chic, Bowie, Diana Ross, Madonna, and Daft Punk. It's not just about volume - Rodgers is a master of tight releases, killer rhythm patterns, and voicings that aren't banging across 5 or 6 strings. Another aspect - playing fills between phrases, rather than banging out chords that perhaps step on the acoustic guitarist. If your fellow is not interested in developing these skills then that's information you should have. Yet, while teaching someone to dial it back is not easy when ego raises its head, it's a positive that he's conscious of not wanting things to flatline when he solos, so hopefully he can learn to create a different baseline for volume and density, which in turn would confer more authority to the ways in which he does step out. Best of luck with the project.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Is his hearing shot? If "yes", there is nothing you can do other than getting a sound tech.

 

[Hankenstein]

Been there. Done that. You can't.

YOU CAN'T!!

Move on

 

[darev]

Sounds like the guitar player is hanging on for dear life already

 

[fdeck]

As the old joke goes, "What do you mean, dynamics? I'm already playing as loud as I can."

 

[wompwomp]

to maybe play devil's advocate here's my take: whether you are playing lead or rhythm, solo or ensemble, whatever: the guitar is fundamentally a stylists' instrument. more like a singer's palette.

imho the platform is so vocal and present and pliant that it requires a point of view to make work, so over the years i've developed a signature sound that I can apply to basically any tune. it's so personified that i've even named it but anybody listening would just call it my sound. I don't use it all the time I sort of turn it off and on depending but I know it's there and it's my primary reference even if i'm using another approach. it is at bottom a dynamic treatment of making sound, I feel like that's sort of what 'style' boils down to.

I feel if a guitarist doesn't have this they better know theory so they at least know what notes to play even if they don't quite have a grasp of how to play them.

I am sort of curious how this got past the jam stage? what was your experience of the guitar player in the early going?

 

[Luther]

Hit him in the head with a brick and find another guitarist.