How do you teach someone dynamics?

[Thunderthumbs73]

So some backstory, I was asked to join an original band by a singer who was looking for a band instead of just her singing and playing guitar.

We have like 25 originals. They all started out as just jam style when we were getting to know each other and how the singer wanted to have the songs feel. But we have slowly worked out structured parts and such for each song. At least most of us have.

My self and the drummer have played together for about 8 years so we know each other really well and have great dynamics and feel when it comes to music. The singer also thinks we are on it but the problem lies with the guitarist. He's been in bands for 15 years but really can't figure out dynamics. I think it's cause he's so focused on his own sound/effects that he doesn't listen to the rest of the band. He plays the same volume from the first bar to the last bar of every song and seems to have only 2 strumming patterns. We've had like 5 gigs so far this December and he only plays a solo on 2 of our songs cause he says the music falls flat if he solos even thought the singer plays acoustic guitar.

So how do I teach this guy
1. Dynamics
2. How to play with a band

TL/DR
guitarist can play as part of a band and has no dynamics how do I teach him to be better?

He doesn't have a dynamics problem, fundamentally. He has a LISTENING (to others) PROBLEM.

 

[oldcatfish]

He doesn't have a dynamics problem, fundamentally. He has a LISTENING (to others) PROBLEM.

This. Also, as someone else mentioned….does he have a hearing problem?

 

[Pings Bass]

How do you teach a person to become a musician?

Usually it's done with a combination of lessons and ensemble playing under a director.

If your band doesn't have a musical director

OR

If the student doesn't want to learn

This guitarist will not learn to be a musician.

 

[Iristone]

Some guitarists can be like that; if you look into my profile I'm currently playing with a guitarist that would tune loudly when the other band members were playing! We bassists and drummers learn to co-operate with the music from the beginning, while guitarists tend to think in a "solo" mindset.
Also, because an electric guitar covers such a wide frequency spectrum, a non-dynamic guitarist leads to more problem when switching between chords and solo, etc.. Even with a good guitarist (the BL of my current band), we had to change our arrangement when he goes solo in order to fill in the mix. So a workaround could be other band members arranging for a more dynamic performance, but the bad guitarist still needs to tighten up his act or get replaced.

 

[KenSmithFan]

How do I make somebody do something that I want them to do, but they don’t want to do? That’s your real question. You don’t “teach” dynamics, everyone knows HOW to play softer and louder. You’re trying to teach them to pay attention to the rest of the band. Good luck with that.

 

[el murdoque]

To get such a feat done, you need to prepare the ground first.
I've personally witnessed two scenarios that made it possible.

1. Upper management forces the player - The Band Leader tells the guitarist that this part needs to be played more silent while this part needs to be played louder, and then strictly enforces it, stopping the song completely, telling the guitarist the dynamics were off, telling them again what is expected of that part and restarts the song - for as long as it takes.
This obviously only works when there is a Band Leader with enough authority and the guitarist really wants to be in that band, because this can also lead to the guitarist leaving.

2. The player in question acknowledging that the song has a problem and that problem is related to their own playing (this requires the ability to listen to the song instead of listening to one's own contribution only), and the player in question is willing to work on that.

With amateur musicians you often face the problem that they will deflect and gaslight and do whatever it takes to make the band bend around their stagnation.

When there is no will to improve and no means to apply enough pressure for them to move, you're stuck with what you got, and replacing the offending player might be the best step forward for the band.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Sadly alot of guitar players don't have real ensemble experience, which alot of us learned in band class in school.

Just knowing the basics helps immensely.

Riis

 

[LowActionHero]

And if you really want to hammer the message home in simplest possible terms (they built an entire career on LOUD | quiet | LOUD , so pick just about anything from their back catalogue) :




Arranging the songs with that structure in mind, will go a long way ; but if the guy refuses to actually use his ears, and be part of the ensemble, then he doesn't have much of a future in the band.

I'd add alot of early Pumpkins to this list

 

[Supadope]

I’m with the others saying they can’t be helped. I wish we ditched the guy I played with earlier. I was learning to sing and I didn’t start to make real improvements until he was gone, and I didn’t have to strain to be heard over his playing.

I tried and tried to tell him, but he’d still wind up leaving his OD, compression, and boost on all the time. We’d get done and I’d point out all his pedals were on, and he would tell me that he makes adjustments with his volume knob. (He never touched his volume knob.)

He could play a good lead, but I don’t miss him.

 

[mpdd]

If the person is a visual learner you can map out composition, balance, complements, and emphasis with some rough sketches. Whereas, with my auditory learners I scale back the visual aids and hum things in my color theory classes.

 

[FullumMusic]

The big question is: Does he WANT to learn new things?

If he's played in bands for 15 years and has not grown beyond his limited abilities, what makes you think this is the moment when he's going to break through and start developing new skills and practicing things he's never worked on before? Has he expressed interest in learning from you?

First answer/best answer.

So some backstory, I was asked to join an original band by a singer who was looking for a band instead of just her singing and playing guitar.

We have like 25 originals. They all started out as just jam style when we were getting to know each other and how the singer wanted to have the songs feel. But we have slowly worked out structured parts and such for each song. At least most of us have.

My self and the drummer have played together for about 8 years so we know each other really well and have great dynamics and feel when it comes to music. The singer also thinks we are on it but the problem lies with the guitarist. He's been in bands for 15 years but really can't figure out dynamics. I think it's cause he's so focused on his own sound/effects that he doesn't listen to the rest of the band. He plays the same volume from the first bar to the last bar of every song and seems to have only 2 strumming patterns. We've had like 5 gigs so far this December and he only plays a solo on 2 of our songs cause he says the music falls flat if he solos even thought the singer plays acoustic guitar.

So how do I teach this guy
1. Dynamics
2. How to play with a band

TL/DR
guitarist can play as part of a band and has no dynamics how do I teach him to be better?

If he only has 2 strumming patterns do you really have 25 originals?

I could probably make a long post dissecting the guitarist's abilities and where his deficiencies are if you wanted to address them, but that would kinda be a moot point. It sounds like dude plays the way he plays and has no intention on improving his skill or musicality beyond where he's at. Probably better off just finding a different guitarist who engages with each song musically as opposed to a guy who has 2 strumming patterns at one dynamic level. (Probably a good thing he only solo'd on 2 songs.)

 

[JonathanPDX]

If the person is a visual learner you can map out composition, balance, complements, and emphasis with some rough sketches. Whereas, with my auditory learners I scale back the visual aids and hum things in my color theory classes.

There's a huge difference between teaching these things to people taking a class to improve, and teaching them to someone who is already working in bands and thinks they have it all figured out. Especially if said person didn't seek out this band environment as a place in which to develop new skills or make changes to their fundamental approach to playing music.

 

[Michedelic]

So some backstory, I was asked to join an original band by a singer who was looking for a band instead of just her singing and playing guitar.

We have like 25 originals. They all started out as just jam style when we were getting to know each other and how the singer wanted to have the songs feel. But we have slowly worked out structured parts and such for each song. At least most of us have.

My self and the drummer have played together for about 8 years so we know each other really well and have great dynamics and feel when it comes to music. The singer also thinks we are on it but the problem lies with the guitarist. He's been in bands for 15 years but really can't figure out dynamics. I think it's cause he's so focused on his own sound/effects that he doesn't listen to the rest of the band. He plays the same volume from the first bar to the last bar of every song and seems to have only 2 strumming patterns. We've had like 5 gigs so far this December and he only plays a solo on 2 of our songs cause he says the music falls flat if he solos even thought the singer plays acoustic guitar.

So how do I teach this guy
1. Dynamics
2. How to play with a band

TL/DR
guitarist can play as part of a band and has no dynamics how do I teach him to be better?

If, after all of the preceding suggestions to ditch him hasn’t been heeded, find out who his favorite guitarists/bands are, find recordings that showcase examples of dynamics(if possible), and use them to illustrate the concept, assuming he can grasp it. If not, can his sorry ass.

 

[gln1955]

Only has two rhythm patterns, no dynamics and doesn't play solos. Sounds like you could upgrade pretty easily and not have to slog through trying to get this guy to play at the level you need.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

This. Also, as someone else mentioned….does he have a hearing problem?

I actually am saying the person in question has a LISTENING PROBLEM in a musical context, but I even wonder if this person has this problem in a non-musical context. I wonder if this person in question is a good conversationalist? A good listener? An impulsive blurter-outer? A maker of commentary or comment off topic? A person that expresses interest and empathy in topics and moments NOT guided by him/her?

I've done this band thing for 30+ years, and it is REALLY interesting the relationship between how musicians handle themselves in conversational matters (musical or not) versus what they do as musicians.

I re-introduced myself to a guitar player early this year, and before any conversational pleasantries could really be exchanged to get a conversation going, he's asking me a litany of questions sizing me up and down: Was I in a band? Where did I live? Oh that many bands? Do I have time for another? Etc... And as a player, he takes EVERY opportunity he gets to play a solo, and in those "solos" he makes sure he hit's almost every note and place on the fretboard at least once. Sigh. A "bull in the china shop" as a person. As a musician. This is more common a relationship than I wish, but the act of trying to have a communication with someone gives sometimes amazing insights to what they'd do, musically. Of course, that guitar player and I have no connection, but I'd like to talk to him someday about music without him sizing me up. I'm sure he's had an interesting musical life, and his takes on the music scene in which he and I are part of would be interesting. But... it seems if I can't be available to do a gig, I'm not worth the conversation.

But yes, medically significant HEARING problems can certainly be a strong possibility.

 

[Bunk McNulty]

All you can do is try to make the suggestion and see what happens. Do it right there in the rehearsal, not any other time. If they are receptive to feedback, they will give it a try. If they aren't, you may need a new guitarist or just deal with the issue. Sadly alot of guitar players don't have real ensemble experience, which alot of us learned in band class in school.

How about: "When th

So some backstory, I was asked to join an original band by a singer who was looking for a band instead of just her singing and playing guitar.

We have like 25 originals. They all started out as just jam style when we were getting to know each other and how the singer wanted to have the songs feel. But we have slowly worked out structured parts and such for each song. At least most of us have.

My self and the drummer have played together for about 8 years so we know each other really well and have great dynamics and feel when it comes to music. The singer also thinks we are on it but the problem lies with the guitarist. He's been in bands for 15 years but really can't figure out dynamics. I think it's cause he's so focused on his own sound/effects that he doesn't listen to the rest of the band. He plays the same volume from the first bar to the last bar of every song and seems to have only 2 strumming patterns. We've had like 5 gigs so far this December and he only plays a solo on 2 of our songs cause he says the music falls flat if he solos even thought the singer plays acoustic guitar.

So how do I teach this guy
1. Dynamics
2. How to play with a band

TL/DR
guitarist can play as part of a band and has no dynamics how do I teach him to be better?

You're not going to teach him. TELL him: When she opens her mouth, cut your volume in half. If he can't understand that, time to audition a new guitarist.

 

[4Mal]

In thunking about your scenario further... Singer plays acoustic guitar. Call a session without the guitaris and record it. Acoustic guitar, bass, drums, vocals. Prove that the core rythm section doesn't actually need electric guitar full bore all the time... Now ask Mr Guitarist how he can improve the recording ...

 

[namboy]

Without putting too fine a point on it, is there a reason you just don't get a better guitarist?

The band leader wants him in the band. I think it's cause she doesn't wanna hurt his feelings as the project has gotten rather far along

I am sort of curious how this got past the jam stage? what was your experience of the guitar player in the early going

In the beginning we all started unsure of where to go "musically" For instance some of my basslines changed multiple times to suit the song until it sat well in the mix and didn't step on any toes. The guitarist seemed to be trying the same thing but is stuck or thinks what he came up is fine. He seems to think that if he gets the right effect everything will be fine regardless of what he plays

 

[namboy]

If your band doesn't have a musical director

This makes alot of sense as the singer/BL kinda just gives us free range for our own parts

1. Upper management forces the player - The Band Leader tells the guitarist that this part needs to be played more silent while this part needs to be played louder, and then strictly enforces it, stopping the song completely, telling the guitarist the dynamics were off, telling them again what is expected of that part and restarts the song - for as long as it takes.
This obviously only works when there is a Band Leader with enough authority and the guitarist really wants to be in that band, because this can also lead to the guitarist leaving.

I will have a chat to the band without the guitarist and see if we can get someone or all of us to act as musical director for a bit of guidance for him

 

[brianrost]

The band leader wants him in the band. I think it's cause she doesn't wanna hurt his feelings

That’s something the bandleader needs to get over.

Explain to her that if she wants her band to be successful (however she might measure that) she needs a more suitable player.

BTW, 13 years of playing bands is meaningless unless they were good bands