How exactly does wood affect tone in electric basses?

[Mr. Majestic]

YeeeeeHawww, hang on boys!

You know, I heard opinions are like armpits, everyone has one or two and all of them stink........except your own.

 

[Psychicpet]

again, these threads are fun.

 

[Mr. Majestic]

A particular note, say an "A" at 440hz, sound vastly different when played on a flute vs a clarinet. This difference is what is referred to as "timbre", and is a result of different harmonic overtones generated by the construction/physics of the different instruments. So when you pluck a certain note on a bass guitar, the waveform generated by the vibrating string is very complex and rich with harmonic overtones.

Now here's where the wood comes in: various woods interact with the harmonic overtones of the note in different ways - effectively cancelling out or reinforcing certain spectral elements (those overtones) as the string vibrates. All other things being equal (string type, pickups, etc, etc) different body woods will cause the string to actually vibrate in slightly different ways which of course affects the timbre.

Since the string is physically vibrating differently depending on woods, then it follows that the pickups amplify a different sound. This difference in sound quality is really timbre, not tone - though everyone uses that term.

That's the dollar tour anyway!

Hope that helps!

-M

This is one of the best explanations I've seen here on TB.

 

[gjooro]

Warwicks are good example
There are many models with different wood combinations and the same pickups/electronice.
Try to play let's say bubinga body/wenge neck corvette and ash body/maple neck corvette.
Wood affects tone

And a classic J bass (alder/rosewood or ash/maple) with barts compared to some warwick with barts sounds VERY different

 

[Rodent]

wood effects tone every bit as much as Mac's are better than PC's


and anyone who can't see it just doesn't understand anything. I own a laptop and can tell the difference, even though I have no measurable means to back my non-scientific pontifications. and because I say it's true (even though I know relatively nothing about building computer hardware) - it's true!

Swamp Ash PC's are superior to Alder Mac's. I can tell the difference

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the absurdity of the wood tonality argument is hopefully becoming disturbingly clear


R

 

[eleonn]

Ok... just login today and see that pandora box have being open again

 

[T2W]

hmmmm, interesting, so what do all you other builders who also happen to build an acoustic instrument once in a while think about different woods having different impacts on the way the instrument will sound. I think guys like Antonio de Torres paved the road for guitar building and this was way before anyone even thought of having an electric instrument. How can there not be differences in wood? I dont believe there would be a way of knowing what wood sounds like what, at least I dont think it could ever be anything more that a mere approximation. But even with same pups, same everything, Im sure there would be a noticeable difference between an all-Wenge Bass, or Bubinga, and an all-Mahogany bass, or whatever... This is not a conclusive truth, hahahaha. Id like to know what you think.

 

[pilotjones]

Which sounds better, an alder XP or a linux bass?

, I think

or maybe just




In an effort to generate "truly conclusive proof," I propose a test with the different elements isolated, and all confounding variables removed: Two basses, one with ash body and all-maple neck; one with alder body and maple neck with rosewood board. No pickups or strings. Bass body wired direct to output jack with no pre, pots, switches or caps. Play both through the same reference amp system.

 

[T2W]

In an effort to generate "truly conclusive proof," I propose a test with the different elements isolated, and all confounding variables removed: Two basses, one with ash body and all-maple neck; one with alder body and maple neck with rosewood board. No pickups or strings. Bass body wired direct to output jack with no pre, pots, switches or caps. Play both through the same reference amp system.

HHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA HAHA HAH AH AHAH AHAAA

 

[troyus]

A real quick way to test this would be to play two fender basses (same model) one with a maple fretboard and one with rosewood, see if you notice a difference. Not everybody can tell...

BUT, I have swapped pickups across two basses, with the same stings, and recorded the tracks and let other people listen and everyone could tell the difference, and they all preferred the sound of Bass A over Bass B.

They had the same body wood and same neck woods... but totally different body shapes.

 

[wilser]

reminder to self: time to get a new tube of PrepH

these threads are like a hemerrhoid attack - they always break out when you least expect them, they turn bloody right when the big turds are being delivered, and they never resolve anything except to profit the company that makes PrepH





all the best,

R

p.s. sorry for the anal ogy Wilser, but it's the only one that seems to fit these discussions

I'm offended.

not really

 

[SMASH]

Which is why some builders recommend tonewoods even though they don't upcharge for them. Their motivation must be making the same money regardless.

Just because someone's not a blatant profiteer doesn't mean they're not deluded.

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General comments :

The problem with stuff like this - Invalid Link Removed - or the old "my alder P sounds different than my ash p" is that two different basses with the "same" woods will also often sound different.

Two different P basses will not necessarily sound the same even if they are made of the "same" woods. They are different basses, possibly of different weight, made from the same species of wood which very likely came from different trees and might even be years apart in age, dried differently, coated differently, different densities, etc.

I put "same" in quotes because one piece of ash and another piece of ash are actually different pieces of wood.

Then factor strings (different composition/brands/gauge/age), string distance from the pickup, different pickup, etc. etc. etc. etc.


And heck, if you use a magic cable and a magic bridge then who knows what difference there is in the wood and what is simply magic, eh? Or the power of suggestion.

 

[Taylor Livingston]

A real quick way to test this would be to play two fender basses (same model) one with a maple fretboard and one with rosewood, see if you notice a difference. Not everybody can tell...

BUT, I have swapped pickups across two basses, with the same stings, and recorded the tracks and let other people listen and everyone could tell the difference, and they all preferred the sound of Bass A over Bass B.

They had the same body wood and same neck woods... but totally different body shapes.

But this is meaningless without the chance of a false positive, especially when you are asking several people all at the same time. Any time you get some people together in a room with musicians and engineers and ask them if they hear a difference between A and B, they will say they do. No one wants to seem like a tin ear.

If you believe there is a big difference, try this: record 10 tracks, with some on one bass and some on the other, but not necessarily 5 with each. Then play the 10 tracks for some people and ask which were played on a maple board and which were on a rosewood board.

 

[Psychicpet]

holy hell this is awesome.

i love it when we want so badly to prove something with instrumentation and scopes and probes.


different wood sounds different. obviously if different cuts of similar species sound different then it's not going to take NASA or MIT to prove that different species sound different.



sweet jebus this is awesome.

 

[SMASH]

holy hell this is awesome.

i love it when we want so badly to prove something with instrumentation and scopes and probes.

I'd settle for common sense and logic. But I know that stuff is not popular on this site, so how about just "apples vs. apples"?

different wood sounds different. obviously if different cuts of similar species sound different then it's not going to take NASA or MIT to prove that different species sound different.

sweet jebus this is awesome.

Or they may all sound the same on an electric bass.

The examples offered in this thread so far for the argument that the woods sound audibly different give someone thinking critically no idea if the difference is in the wood or not. Or if there really is any difference at all (if the strings, setup, etc. etc. were the same).

But let's say we all claim to hear a difference, is that difference consistent and predictable? Do we even hear the same difference? If not, can we be sure there's a difference at all?

Notice how often in the threads in which people post "listen and vote before I reveal which is which" stypes of sound clips that half the folks say "#1 sounds brighter" and half say "#2 sounds brighter". Same thing with threads about magic bridges - half the people who claim to hear a difference contradict each other as to what that difference actually is. That's when it gets awesome!

But never as awesome as when the self-proclaimed golden-ears refuse to step up for proper testing, even when $1million is offered. Invalid Link Removed

 

[pilotjones]

Yeah, the Monster Cable vs. coat hangers story is great, too.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

In a blind test I think you'd be hard pressed to discern any appreciable difference.

This is one of the most perpetually discussed topics in this site. The Basses Forum archive is packed with them.

I can hear a big difference - and even more so with graphite!

So the old Bass Centre in London used to have big stocks of basses and I would go along on a morning during the week and try as many as I could.

What was interesting was the Status range - so they made identical shape basses with identical electronics - but there was a time when they had different amounts of graphite.

So identical shape etc - but one bass would have only graphite reinforcement in the neck, one would have an all graphite neck but wood body and another would be all graphite.

There was a huge difference in tone that anybody could have told blindfold - the all graphite bass was so different to a wood bass!!

I think with different woods the change is more subtle - but you can hear it if you listen - it's like wine - a lot of people think wine is just red or white !!

Whereas others, can taste hundreds of variations ....?

 

[Rickett Customs]

Hmmmm.......I find this thread shallow and pedantic

 

[Brad Johnson]

Just because someone's not a blatant profiteer doesn't mean they're not deluded.

No, but it would certainly make the people who say that's why they do it (profit motive) seem that way. As if wood can't simply matter.

"Deluded"?

Of course some have to take this to this level for no apparent reason. Maybe it's just a difference of experiences.

-------

General comments :

The problem with stuff like this - Invalid Link Removed - or the old "my alder P sounds different than my ash p" is that two different basses with the "same" woods will also often sound different.

And that doesn't preclude the fact that two otherwise identical basses with different woods can't consistently display different timbres.

Two different P basses will not necessarily sound the same even if they are made of the "same" woods. They are different basses, possibly of different weight, made from the same species of wood which very likely came from different trees and might even be years apart in age, dried differently, coated differently, different densities, etc.

I put "same" in quotes because one piece of ash and another piece of ash are actually different pieces of wood.

Then factor strings (different composition/brands/gauge/age), string distance from the pickup, different pickup, etc. etc. etc. etc.


And heck, if you use a magic cable and a magic bridge then who knows what difference there is in the wood and what is simply magic, eh? Or the power of suggestion.

Or just different. It must be something other than that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I can hear a big difference - and even more so with graphite!

So the old Bass Centre in London used to have big stocks of basses and I would go along on a morning during the week and try as many as I could.

What was interesting was the Status range - so they made identical shape basses with identical electronics - but there was a time when they had different amounts of graphite.

So identical shape etc - but one bass would have only graphite reinforcement in the neck, one would have an all graphite neck but wood body and another would be all graphite.

There was a huge difference in tone that anybody could have told blindfold - the all graphite bass was so different to a wood bass!!

I think with different woods the change is more subtle - but you can hear it if you listen - it's like wine - a lot of people think wine is just red or white !!

Whereas others, can taste hundreds of variations ....?

Yes but when you make that observation (what you can hear if you listen) somebody will start in with the golden ears crap.

Like clockwork.