Damn, now you guys have me questioning myself. It's now 2:30 in the morning so I'll test myself again tomorrow and report the results.
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How fast can you go ?
- Thread starter bassbrother666
- Start date
The following is kind of fast example of FAST bebop: "Shaw 'Nuff"
Dizzy Gillespie and his all star quintette: Dizzy Gillespie (tp), Charlie Parker (as), Al Haig (p), Curly Russell (b), Sidney Catlett (ds)
NYC, May 11, 1945
Tempo is around 288BPM (quarter note = 288/minute)
It's the same as playing the 16th notes at 72BPM.
(Or maybe I'm missing something)
Clifford Brown-Max Roach, "Cherokee" = 360BPM.
It's the same as playing the 16th notes at 90BPM.
Speed wise, that is not that fast, but trying to improvise a walking line at that tempo is pretty daunting.
Let's check Paul Chambers' solo with Art Pepper Quartet - Straight Life (1957)
Personnel: Art Pepper (alto sax), Red Garland (piano), Paul Chambers (bass), Philly Joe Jones (drums)
Paul Chambers' solo at 2:01.
Dizzy Gillespie - Stan Getz Sextet 1953 ~ It Don't Mean A Thing
Ray Brown's solo at 4:43
Personnel:
Dizzy Gillespie - Trumpet
Stan Getz - Tenor Sax
Oscar Peterson - Piano
Herb Ellis - Guitar
Ray Brown - Bass
Max Roach - Drums
A very interesting duet:
George Shearing (piano) & Brian Torff (Double bass virtuoso -IMHO)- "High and Inside"
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Still awake, I hope I didn't imply that I was transcribing and performing quarter note walking lines. I was transcribing the horn solos which generally consisted of eighth notes but there are also double time lines, and their flourishes could and would be crazy and could include anything. Joe Farrell's flute solo on Spain contains a sequence at the end of the second (or third) chorus that is quite a pain on bass.
Perhaps it's me that's missing something.
Perhaps it's me that's missing something.
Neither one would be easy. Those walking lines at that speed (equivalent to 1/16th's at 1/4=100+ BPM) is no laughing matter. As far as horn lines go, Jaco's Donna Lee is about 1/4=120bpm, and very hard to play. These horn line examples on here are much faster than Donna Lee (especially the Art Pepper tune).
Yeah, I would say that could be a bit tricky. Although, since it is triplets and mostly adjacent notes, a simple RMI three finger technique would make it much easier.
I'm faster than a speeding bullet.
Actually, I have no idea in terms of bpm. When I was in my twenties & thirties and played full-time I was fast enough to play pretty much whatever I wanted, but I've slowed down over the years, partly because I don't place as much importance on speed and don't work on it anymore. I suppose if I had to play some demanding stuff I could work back up to being fast in a few months. It's like weight lifting, you have to keep at it to maintain it. At least that's true for me.
Actually, I have no idea in terms of bpm. When I was in my twenties & thirties and played full-time I was fast enough to play pretty much whatever I wanted, but I've slowed down over the years, partly because I don't place as much importance on speed and don't work on it anymore. I suppose if I had to play some demanding stuff I could work back up to being fast in a few months. It's like weight lifting, you have to keep at it to maintain it. At least that's true for me.
Just rechecked my tremolo/1-note speed. I can play 16th notes at 188 for about 3 bars at a time. Something to note is that I play "fingerslap", where I hit the strings off the frets, so it's harder than traditional fingerstyle.
I was also pretty fatigued before playing at 188.
I was also pretty fatigued before playing at 188.
I just tried it again, I didn't warm up as going from 100bpm to wherever the train stops was enough.
Anyway I started goings south around 166-169bpm (playing 16th), it makes me think I had a dyslexic moment reading 169bpm not 196bpm. Oops sorry.
I was quite a bit more solid at 160 though, and just sort of hanging on after that, last night it didn't seem as tough.
Test was consistent 16th notes, over a minimum period of 20 second.
N.B. Yeah I am well aware of the challenge of Donna Lee, I don't like the tune much. I prefer blues for Alice, scrapple etc.
Anyway I started goings south around 166-169bpm (playing 16th), it makes me think I had a dyslexic moment reading 169bpm not 196bpm. Oops sorry.
I was quite a bit more solid at 160 though, and just sort of hanging on after that, last night it didn't seem as tough.
Test was consistent 16th notes, over a minimum period of 20 second.
N.B. Yeah I am well aware of the challenge of Donna Lee, I don't like the tune much. I prefer blues for Alice, scrapple etc.
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You can certainly play for longer at those speeds than I can. The fastest I can play runs/scales is probably a bit over 120 bpm 16th notes. I can do chromatic runs (4 notes a string, go up, slide a fret down, go down) starting from the 12th fret. That, and some other technique things, is what I've been doing for the past few days.
Doner Designs
Steve Doner
- Jun 2, 2012
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How important is speed? Does it wreck a song to replace 1/8 notes with 1/4 notes (etc) in order to give your fingers a break?
Really depends on the genre. Some people (me) think that bass can play a bigger role than some other people do. I personally want to be able to play fast enough to double some moderately fast solos, and double a lot of technical riffs. I am a metal bassist, so that's part of why I like fast bass, but I just like the sound of a competent bassist in the mix in any genre. There is nothing wrong with playing quarter notes though, as they work well in most genres.
Besides what you said about genres,
IMHO,
there is a very big and important link between Speed and Musicality as Quantity versus Quality.
With the computer mouse, I've tried to draw some explanation about it.
It's a very SIMPLIFIED explanation/drawing.
Quantity - as faster notes at faster tempo,
Quality - as proper articulation, dynamics, note lengths, mood, character, etc...
Here is what I mean.
Let's say, I've been playing the bass guitar for 1 year. I can play some notes at a slow tempo with kind of good quality. If I decide to increase the note quantity or increase the tempo (also as quantity) my quality will suffer.
After 2-years of playing the bass, my technique improved and now I can play more (or at faster tempo) notes with good articulation, timing, etc.... If I decide to increase the speed (quantity) my quality starts suffering.
After 3 years of playing the bass, I was able to move my Quantity/Quality curve to the right. Now, I can play faster notes without sacrificing my performance quality.
After 4, 5, 7, etc....
What I mean is this:
Even if I NEVER play those 16th notes at 180BPM, my improved technique will help me to PERFECT (stabilize) my performance of quarter notes at 40BPM.
The more TECHNICAL backup/ability I have, the better is my Musical Performance.
Again, it's only my SIMPLIFIED opinion.
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This looks like one of those (many out there) that have been sped up after the fact. His body movements seem unnatural to me.
EDIT: This is in reference to the above video...
Great thread. I tried this "test" by playing along with my metronome, and then did it again by playing for the "liveBPM" iPhone app, and I got different numbers. It might be interesting to see what everyone's results are for these two scenarios (self-reporting with metronome vs a "bpm listener" app).
Depends on what you consider to be music. Of course there is that guy who can play at 384 bpm, but that really isn't very musical.
There is a death metal bassist by the name of Erlend Casperen. He plays his own songs on youtube, and he plays extremely fast. So, if you're willing to listen to death metal you can check out how fast he plays.
Yes, indeed, Erlend's compositions require a lot of durable technical strength.
The following composition is about 250BPM but Erlend does not play the 16th notes (at least constant).
250 was probably an overshot. I know some bass players that can play somewhere around 220-240 bpm. One was on a youtube video showcasing a practice technique. Idk what it was called though. I know Billy Sheehan could at least play triplets at these high speeds.
