That's a very over-the-top way to explain scales and chords to someone who's obviously a novice. Otherwise, he would have never asked that question in the first place. I appreciate your point however.
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I like this explanation, very nice logic. Scales are typically constructed from 2nds sounding sequentially, and chords are generally constructed from 3rds sounding simultaneously. Of course there are a few exceptions, but overall it makes a lot of sense!
Just get on I-80 and head West. Don't need no stinking map for that.If you wanted to get from New York City to San Francisco, how important would a map be? That's how important scales are. Even more important is knowing how to use them.
Where does tempo come into this? Notes and chords without tempo amd rhythm is gibberish, like a randomly spaced series of misspelled words
I'd like to point out that not all scales work in seconds. A pentatonic scale, the minor variety, starts with a third. As do many of the exotic scales.I like this explanation, very nice logic. Scales are typically constructed from 2nds sounding sequentially, and chords are generally constructed from 3rds sounding simultaneously. Of course there are a few exceptions, but overall it makes a lot of sense!
Berlin here is speaking of the concept of arpeggios. He's not speaking about the importance or value of scales. Without scales there are no chords. The use and theory behind both concepts are quite different. Chords outline harmony while scales add melodic color and tensions.
If you look up YouTubes of Jeff Berlin, you should see plenty about his thoughts on practicing scales (I don't want to post them lest this thread turn into "Berlinses! We hates it forever!"
). He's pretty down on them and much more strident than I am.
IMO knowing the Major 7, Minor7, Dominant 7, and Half Diminished Chord Tone patterns up and down the neck is most important. Followed by memorizing the Interval patterns for each key. Just those two steps are a lot of work!
Well although I respect him, just because he says so only makes it true for him. Many other fine bassists would agree that scales are vital. Mingus, Wooten etc...the list goes on.If you look up YouTubes of Jeff Berlin, you should see plenty about his thoughts on practicing scales (I don't want to post them lest this thread turn into "Berlinses! We hates it forever!"
I think some of it stems during Jeff's time teaching in music schools during the '80s and '90s. This was a time when jazz pedagogy became as Branford Marsalis put it, nerdy and wonkish, and Jeff felt that by loading up students with every ridiculous scale possible, along classes on groove, timing, and feel, that schools were gratuitously padding the curriculum. That's just my speculation, btw.
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You're probably right. And with all due respect to Mr. Berlin, he has been known to be a bit of a blowhard. LOL that doesn't mean that he's not a fine musician and a knowledgeable one. the initial question on this post has been very interesting because by reading the people's posts you can really see how many ways there are for people to receive and internalize music.
Absolutely correct!If you wanted to get from New York City to San Francisco, how important would a map be? That's how important scales are. Even more important is knowing how to use them.
Knowing the structure of scales (and therefore arpeggios and chords) makes it easier to learn songs by ear, because you have a better idea of what notes the bass player chose to play, and not to play. If you play from a chord chart it is absolutely necessary to know scales, again so you know what notes to play and not to play. If you play from bass charts (dots) scales (and key signatures) show you the best position for your fretting hand. For some styles of music a little knowledge may be all you need. Start with major, minor & 7th.
There have been a million replies already and not sure if you’re interested in even reading any more but I’d like to add:
Key signatures is more important than scales (because if you know what key you’re in and the number of sharps or flats you know the scale). I see it more as “what notes are available and will work within the key” i.e. sound “right” for most chords. Helps for walking, transposing, embellishments etc.
Key signatures is more important than scales (because if you know what key you’re in and the number of sharps or flats you know the scale). I see it more as “what notes are available and will work within the key” i.e. sound “right” for most chords. Helps for walking, transposing, embellishments etc.
On reflection this is a futile topic, at least as defined in the opening question. Music consists of so many mechanical, technical and emotional elements that it's impossible to place one above the others without the context of a given piece. One might argue that songs revolve around the lyrics, but without melody they are just poems. Yet the real emotional impact of the melody is often only revealed by the harmony and the juxtaposition of harmonic rhythm. In true counterpoint, each part is a melody in it's own right, whereas in modern pop/dance music, melody and harmony are often of little consequence to each other, with greater reliance on rhythm and a relentless downbeat at near-constant tempo. Rock music places even less importance on melody, deferring to strong rhythm and well-defined but simple harmony.
As a bass player, my goal is ever-deeper understanding of the contexts such that I can better determine the right priority for the tune in hand, case by case.
As far as the OP is concerned...
...I would suggest picking over some songs that you know and try to determine the priority element in the song - is it the tune, the words, the rhythm, etc. - then work out how the bass part fits in. Is it creating the rhythmic backbone? Is it supporting or defining the chords? Or is it working with the tune in some degree of counterpoint? Or is it the defining signature around which the whole composition was written? Therein lies the answer to the question, IMHO.
YMMV.
As a bass player, my goal is ever-deeper understanding of the contexts such that I can better determine the right priority for the tune in hand, case by case.
As far as the OP is concerned...
...I would suggest picking over some songs that you know and try to determine the priority element in the song - is it the tune, the words, the rhythm, etc. - then work out how the bass part fits in. Is it creating the rhythmic backbone? Is it supporting or defining the chords? Or is it working with the tune in some degree of counterpoint? Or is it the defining signature around which the whole composition was written? Therein lies the answer to the question, IMHO.
YMMV.
A retired music professor gave me a piece of sheet music with all the scales on it.......before that day I only knew the major and minor scales. Play them all now. I play one mode in all keys per practice and move around in either 5ths or 4ths. Really does make things better, the whole fret board is now my playground.
