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How important is set flow when you see a band?
- Thread starter mancefine
- Start date
it occurs to me that part of the problem with keeping the crowd engaged is the guitarist who is always tuning is also the singer, the most obvious choice to do the crowd chatter. what to do, oh what to do?
agreed. dudes are good. that's what makes this so much more important for them.
Yes. I totally agree. The music is there.
I was thinking, if I was in something this good, I would be putting some serious thought into sharpening up my image (since OP is already thinking that way). I'd even go so far as to hire a consultant.
I'd also put together an air-tight, in-your-face, balls-to-the-wall (put your own cliché here) professional stage show that left people exhausted and begging for more. I wouldn't dare risk sending them to the restroom or out to the parking lot for a smoke because of the dead air between songs. Again, there are DVD's and consultants that can help bands stage and pace their show.
The music is that good, it's time to make those moves.
It's a show so you should be engaged with your audience in some fashion at all times. If your guitarist needs to tune, somebody needs to be talking and ENGAGING the audience. There should be an ebb and flow to any set so going from one song straight into another can be a bit overwhelming if that's all you do. Having space in between some of the songs is a good change of pace but dead silence is not. If it's the guitar player who needs the time to tune, you and the drummer should figure out what you want to say to buy him time. It's not just a bunch of songs your playing, it's a show your putting on and everything you do should be geared with that in mind.
On the look thing, I think you guys are fine.
On the look thing, I think you guys are fine.
- Oct 18, 2012
- 6,683
- 5,538
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Fender, Spector, Ampeg, Curt Mangan, Nordstrand Pickups, Korg , Conquest Sound
Set flow is very important. Songs must be arranged in a way which makes sense. The band should be ready to transition from one song to the next with little or no time between some songs and have some larger gaps between other songs so the lead singer can talk to the crowd. I usually set things up so that the first 3 songs are upbeat and danceable. Then let the singer talk for about 20 to 30 seconds and do a slow song. This lets the crowd know in the first 4 songs that there will be a mix of fast and slow songs. I also blend songs together so that we do not always stop between songs. You also have to be able to read the audience. If you have a great crowd on the dance floor and the next song on your list is one that people do not usually dance to, skip it and play something that will keep people dancing.
Every time I see a band start messing about at the end of a tune discussing what to do next I always think A**hats, and tend to leave. I'm still su-prized at the amount of times I see this. The only time you'll get a pass is if it's an unexpected call up and someone is invited to join. There will be chatter but keep it fast.
Being absolutely sarcastic here but there's this thing called a set list? Have you tried one? Tends to provide focus.
Look it's simple there's a difference in rehearsals, and here's the formula I always use. There's the lets just practice, have fun, shoot some breeze types which are the most common. The there's the second type is the run up to a show. At the start of rehearsal I give fair warning and say that the show starts in 5 minutes, pretend you're on stage and it really counts, don't stop unless it's planned, tune the SECOND the songs over if you drift, but go at least 4 tunes before doing so. Singer talks here, keys reprogram there etc, and account for same in the set. I will time this to ensure that we hit the times. Yes I have used a stop watch in some cases, I will even go as far as a simulated load and setup if I think it's warranted, that way everything's slick and on the numbers.
One or two of those will demo the what time changes are required, where to have vox cover cover for say drop D tunings and such. You then group it all together so that once in drop you stay there. Run it again and look for lag. It'll get to be a science rather quickly and those that seem to fall behind at first will quickly get caught up in the charge. Pretty soon you can just do this without thinking.
Then you walk out on stage, slicker than snot and the next thing you know you're in the next tier, which I assure you will NOT happen until you solve this.......
Being absolutely sarcastic here but there's this thing called a set list? Have you tried one? Tends to provide focus.
Look it's simple there's a difference in rehearsals, and here's the formula I always use. There's the lets just practice, have fun, shoot some breeze types which are the most common. The there's the second type is the run up to a show. At the start of rehearsal I give fair warning and say that the show starts in 5 minutes, pretend you're on stage and it really counts, don't stop unless it's planned, tune the SECOND the songs over if you drift, but go at least 4 tunes before doing so. Singer talks here, keys reprogram there etc, and account for same in the set. I will time this to ensure that we hit the times. Yes I have used a stop watch in some cases, I will even go as far as a simulated load and setup if I think it's warranted, that way everything's slick and on the numbers.
One or two of those will demo the what time changes are required, where to have vox cover cover for say drop D tunings and such. You then group it all together so that once in drop you stay there. Run it again and look for lag. It'll get to be a science rather quickly and those that seem to fall behind at first will quickly get caught up in the charge. Pretty soon you can just do this without thinking.
Then you walk out on stage, slicker than snot and the next thing you know you're in the next tier, which I assure you will NOT happen until you solve this.......
- Jul 7, 2013
- 255
- 64
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Orange Amplifiers and Spector Basses
All great suggestions. Thanks again for the props on the tunes. We practiced last night and talked about it and I expect our show tonight to flow well. Our guitarist found his explorer will pretty much stay in tune the whole set so we should be good to go. FYI, we had already arranged our setlist in a good order for flow, it was just at shows we would always break between regardless of what was planned. I don't think it will be an issue any more.
- Jan 27, 2010
- 4,141
- 471
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz Amplification
Every time I see a band start messing about at the end of a tune discussing what to do next I always think A**hats, and tend to leave. I'm still su-prized at the amount of times I see this. The only time you'll get a pass is if it's an unexpected call up and someone is invited to join. There will be chatter but keep it fast.
Being absolutely sarcastic here but there's this thing called a set list? Have you tried one? Tends to provide focus.
Look it's simple there's a difference in rehearsals, and here's the formula I always use. There's the lets just practice, have fun, shoot some breeze types which are the most common. The there's the second type is the run up to a show. At the start of rehearsal I give fair warning and say that the show starts in 5 minutes, pretend you're on stage and it really counts, don't stop unless it's planned, tune the SECOND the songs over if you drift, but go at least 4 tunes before doing so. Singer talks here, keys reprogram there etc, and account for same in the set. I will time this to ensure that we hit the times. Yes I have used a stop watch in some cases, I will even go as far as a simulated load and setup if I think it's warranted, that way everything's slick and on the numbers.
One or two of those will demo the what time changes are required, where to have vox cover cover for say drop D tunings and such. You then group it all together so that once in drop you stay there. Run it again and look for lag. It'll get to be a science rather quickly and those that seem to fall behind at first will quickly get caught up in the charge. Pretty soon you can just do this without thinking.
Then you walk out on stage, slicker than snot and the next thing you know you're in the next tier, which I assure you will NOT happen until you solve this.......
Very good advice for all bands, regardless of genre.
Funny, I was thinking about this the other day after I saw a friends band play. It occurred to me that the last four years I have spent as a church musician will serve me well in this regard.
You see, we transition almost everything. In fact, that is pretty much how most time at rehearsals are spent.
You have new program and new transitions every week. Church services are often planned to the minute, so there is NO dead time. Not only do you need to have a smooth transition from song to song but you also transition to video, sermon etc.
Sometimes we move back and forth from one song to the next and the back again.I am not a great musician by any means and I learned how to do this.
A band probably does not want to run every song together, but you should at least be comfortable doing it. Of course, in the church world you have a director that says" here is what we are gong to do" and you do it. Eliminating the time it takes to discuss.
A good thing about focusing some on transitions is that it helps me feel more connected to the other musicians.
You see, we transition almost everything. In fact, that is pretty much how most time at rehearsals are spent.
You have new program and new transitions every week. Church services are often planned to the minute, so there is NO dead time. Not only do you need to have a smooth transition from song to song but you also transition to video, sermon etc.
Sometimes we move back and forth from one song to the next and the back again.I am not a great musician by any means and I learned how to do this.
A band probably does not want to run every song together, but you should at least be comfortable doing it. Of course, in the church world you have a director that says" here is what we are gong to do" and you do it. Eliminating the time it takes to discuss.
A good thing about focusing some on transitions is that it helps me feel more connected to the other musicians.
one thing that may help is to record the show. audio only will work for this exercise. when a song ends and there's silence you can really feel how loooooooooong 5 seconds is. it's an eternity.
recording is good not only to see the problem, continue recording so you can see your improvement. you will improve i'm certain. measuring that improvement will give the whole band some much needed positive feedback.
The most "structured" band I've been, back in the early 90's, the guitarist attended a showmanship seminar. He was told a set should come out swinging then have a lull in the middle & finish as you started. Plus songs meant to "wow" the crowd need to be first song, or last song of the set. Also was told to divide the audience into 9 squares (like a suduko puzzle) and each member of the band pick a square or 2 and interact with those areas (eye contact, etc.). That band also practiced how we wanted our show to run down to a "T". It just happens that was one of the most successful bands I've ever been in, playing very good paying high profile resort gigs.
Think of the show as a whole.
If you can run the whole set non stop that's pretty cool. Reality is a string might break or an instrument might need to be tuned.
Those risks can be mitigated by bringing backups.
When you drummer loses a stick mid song he doesn't stop, he prolly simplifies for a beat or two as he grabs a new one.
When you do have to have moments of down time, you have to do the same.
Maybe the drummer keeps a beat going as the guitar player tunes. The bass player yells stuff to the crowd, then 1,2,3, go and into the next song.
When you do stop and there is no music, there needs to be a reason. This is prime time to personally engage the crowd. Yell to them "Are we loud enough! {pause let them yell back, and you respond to their stuff} Are we fast enough! {do the same BS}" . Then go into a really loud fast song.
or pause after a block of fast stuff, before you hit a slower number. Grab you water,beer, martini, whatever..."Now we're gonna slow it down with a song so heavy and thick Black Sabbath uses it on their barbeque" {prolly don't make your intros that corny}.
The whole idea is to design your gig like it's a play. You are after all on a stage and there's an audience watching.
If you can run the whole set non stop that's pretty cool. Reality is a string might break or an instrument might need to be tuned.
Those risks can be mitigated by bringing backups.
When you drummer loses a stick mid song he doesn't stop, he prolly simplifies for a beat or two as he grabs a new one.
When you do have to have moments of down time, you have to do the same.
Maybe the drummer keeps a beat going as the guitar player tunes. The bass player yells stuff to the crowd, then 1,2,3, go and into the next song.
When you do stop and there is no music, there needs to be a reason. This is prime time to personally engage the crowd. Yell to them "Are we loud enough! {pause let them yell back, and you respond to their stuff} Are we fast enough! {do the same BS}" . Then go into a really loud fast song.
or pause after a block of fast stuff, before you hit a slower number. Grab you water,beer, martini, whatever..."Now we're gonna slow it down with a song so heavy and thick Black Sabbath uses it on their barbeque" {prolly don't make your intros that corny}.
The whole idea is to design your gig like it's a play. You are after all on a stage and there's an audience watching.
I have my transitions down for when I switch basses. Mute pedal, unplug, bass on stand, grab 2nd bass, strap on, plug in, check for sound. As soon as the drummer hears my sound coming out of 2nd bass, he stars the count in. Takes about 20 seconds. If I'm not changing basses, the only time between songs is to thank the audience, then let it rip. If the guitarist needs to tune during the set, he needs to get a more stable guitar. Even Hendrix managed to tune his strat, during a solo. That always is awesome to see. Who cares what you look like if the music rocks. Just don't hump the mic stand ala system of a downs guitarist and I am not judging anyone.
Dig the tunes. you guys are solid and talented.
group your songs by 2, 3, or even 4. practice this way, practice breaks. know what is going to be said in those breaks, keep the breaks to a minimum. practice stage presence.
look.. i know TB has a crusade against looks mattering, but this is how business, look like a cohesive unit. Your singer/guitarist certainly has the look that band entails and your drummer looks like he rocks. to me you're the weak link looks wise going off only a pic or two on reverbnation. rocker it up a little my man. lose some sleeves..
group your songs by 2, 3, or even 4. practice this way, practice breaks. know what is going to be said in those breaks, keep the breaks to a minimum. practice stage presence.
look.. i know TB has a crusade against looks mattering, but this is how business, look like a cohesive unit. Your singer/guitarist certainly has the look that band entails and your drummer looks like he rocks. to me you're the weak link looks wise going off only a pic or two on reverbnation. rocker it up a little my man. lose some sleeves..
