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How long did it take you?

We have to define "good". Lets define "good" as able to perform without error on 12 tunes. Like a set. And specify bass guitar. We'll forgive elements such as feeling, drive, nuance - just execution to support a unit or band.

I'd say that is achievable by the average person after 500 hrs of [effective] structured practice and rehearsal. That doesn't sound like much. But what happens, is folks think about practicing, watch the calendar elapse, spend time shopping, spend time on forums, pickup their instrument almost daily, hit a few lines or repeat a favorite tune, go to a 30 minute practice partially prepared once a week [missing about every fourth week] and feel like they are "practicing". In actuality, they are getting 1-2 hours a week of actual new-material, new-faculty challenge and accomplishment that will advance their ability from where it was the day or week before. At that rate, they will hit the 500 hr threshold in 5-10 years, if they last that long.

I sympathize with those who don't feel like they are moving fast enough. However it always comes down to the one single behavior at play. Those familiar with band and orchestra programs, have seen untalented, average students go on to perform functionally in a couple years, without a lot of diligence, and less practicing at home. Its because they are getting daily structured, instruction at school, and those hours add up.

I feel for the private student who goes to instruction 30 minutes a week, and maybe picks up an instrument a half hour a day. That model doesn't work well, even though its the convention. Those that succeed at that model (10%?) do so by exception, because they either are highly talented, or, they cheat and actually practice 2 hrs a day almost every day, and hit the 500 hours in that first year. Some obsessed, undistracted young folks with nothing but free time, can hit 500 hours in a few months. And that's 500 hours of hurting your head at things you can't yet perform, not 500 hours of noodling the same stuff.

For adults, its very difficult to get in hours of real challenging practice, due to other demands. I'd say that's the barrier for most. You have to make a choice about your time, and you have to endure and embrace the very unpleasant task of new material and exercises, that make you feel and sound not good. And if you only have a half hour, you don't want to do the hard stuff, you want the gratification of sounding pleasant, so you default to something that doesn't need practice. The time crunch causes this circular behavior.

I always ask prospective students if they can dedicate 2hrs a day, 5 days a week for lessons, in exchange for practicing at home. That pretty much identifies who isn't going to make it. If you can't make the time for instruction, you'll never make the time for practice at home. That's the choice.
 
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When you got good is a subjective question, and is understandably hard to answer. That was kind of my point. I was hoping everyone would focus on the objective questions in my post How long until you started playing with others? How long until you joined a band? How long until you played your first gig?etc.

Played with others about 1 year after I started. But it was only 2 or 3 times. I grew up in a very isolated place without any other musicians or even music stores so I just played bass solo. My 1st gig was about 8 years after I started. I had just moved to Washington state. 2 weeks after I moved I auditioned for a band, got the job on the spot and was in the studio 4 weeks later recording original songs. About a month after that was my 1st gig. Then for about 10 years I was in and out of several bands. As soon as one project ended I was being asked to another. Then I got tired of it and quit playing with others and resumed life as a hermit. On rare occasion maybe once a year or every other year I will attend an open mic, do a 5 minute bass solo improv piece and then quickly leave before people can ask me questions.
 
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We have to define "good". Lets define "good" as able to perform without error on 12 tunes. Like a set. And specify bass guitar. We'll forgive elements such as feeling, drive, nuance - just execution to support a unit or band.

I'd say that is achievable by the average person after 500 hrs of [effective] structured practice and rehearsal. That doesn't sound like much. But what happens, is folks think about practicing, watch the calendar elapse, spend time shopping, spend time on forums, pickup their instrument almost daily, hit a few lines or repeat a favorite tune, go to a 30 minute practice partially prepared once a week [missing about every fourth week] and feel like they are "practicing". In actuality, they are getting 1-2 hours a week of actual new-material, new-faculty challenge and accomplishment that will advance their ability from where it was the day or week before. At that rate, they will hit the 500 hr threshold in 5-10 years, if they last that long.

I sympathize with those who don't feel like they are moving fast enough. However it always comes down to the one single behavior at play. Those familiar with band and orchestra programs, have seen untalented, average students go on to perform functionally in a couple years, without a lot of diligence, and less practicing at home. Its because they are getting daily structured, instruction at school, and those hours add up.

I feel for the private student who goes to instruction 30 minutes a week, and maybe picks up an instrument a half hour a day. That model doesn't work well, even though its the convention. Those that succeed at that model (10%?) do so by exception, because they either are highly talented, or, they cheat and actually practice 2 hrs a day almost every day, and hit the 500 hours in that first year. Some obsessed, undistracted young folks with nothing but free time, can hit 500 hours in a few months. And that's 500 hours of hurting your head at things you can't yet perform, not 500 hours of noodling the same stuff.

For adults, its very difficult to get in hours of real challenging practice, due to other demands. I'd say that's the barrier for most. You have to make a choice about your time, and you have to endure and embrace the very unpleasant task of new material and exercises, that make you feel and sound not good. And if you only have a half hour, you don't want to do the hard stuff, you want the gratification of sounding pleasant, so you default to something that doesn't need practice. The time crunch causes this circular behavior.

I always ask prospective students if they can dedicate 2hrs a day, 5 days a week for lessons, in exchange for practicing at home. That pretty much identifies who isn't going to make it. If you can't make the time for instruction, you'll never make the time for practice at home. That's the choice.

I agree with some of this, but if you read the replies in this post most of the bass players that responded began playing with others, joined bands and even gigged well before they reached that 500 hour threshold. I also believe that most us started playing with others and even gigging way before we thought we were good or even competent. I guess my point is that throwing things like that out to people just starting to play is discouraging. Playing an instrument should be fun. IMO Telling someone that you will have to practice two hours a day for 5 years to get good is not helpful. Telling someone that with some effort you should be able to have a lot of fun with this thing in less than a year is more realistic, and in my opinion more encouraging. The one thing this post has proven I believe without a shadow of a doubt is that none of us will ever be satisfied with our playing. Which is cool. This should be a fun journey not a destination.
 
I have always been curious about this. You will rather frequently see a thread from someone just beginning to play an instrument in which they ask the question "How long does it take to get good". The post is often met with multiple replies that all basically boil down to some version of "it depends". We all know that "it depends" is the correct answer, but I am not sure it is usually very helpful. With all that being said I would like to ask the question in a different way. How long did it take you to get good? How long was it from when you first started playing an instrument until you were regularly playing with others? How long until you joined your first band or music group? How long until you played your first gig? How long until you felt like you were competent or at least felt comfortable referring to yourself as a bass player or (insert instrument) player, or musician?
To get things started I have been playing bass for a little over 3 years. I joined my first band about 4 months after I started playing. It was a rock originals/cover band that was apparently very desperate for a bass player. Three bands later I played my first real gig one year and three months after I started playing. After two years I began to feel comfortable referring to myself as a bass player and musician. I still do not feel like I am very good, but I get better every day.

The problem with the question is that it's subjective. How long did it take me to get good, or until I reached the point to where I thought I was good, or others said I was good?

I believe I thought I was good way before I was. I can pull out recordings from 30 or so years ago and I would tell you now that I wasn't that good then, but back then I thought I was fantastic.

How long until one reaches a milestone would be easier to pinpoint. How long before I could learn a song on my own can be different from someone who had lessons or someone helping them. How long before I got in a band is different from those who had a lot of musicians in their area looking for players. Just because I got in a band doesn't mean I was good... just means I was good enough for them.

I will however say this to anyone learning; you will get out of it what you put in it. You will have moments of great advancement and spells where it seems you are not progressing.

As long as you love and enjoy the journey and don't get hung up on when something is going to happen, you will be there before you know it.
 
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Hi, my name is John. I'm a bass player and I suck.
No wait, I'm really good.
No wait, I'm somewhere between suck and really good.
Well, I guess it depends on who you ask and what circles the comparison is being made.
No wait, now we gotta determine, what aspect of bass playing are we judging?
Oh boy, this is a rabbit hole I'm not willing to go down on a Friday morning. I'm gonna finish my work day and go home and practice and hopefully meet up with some buds for a jam tomorrow. You guys/gals figure it who's good and who sucks and I'll check back later.:cool:
 
I must have been a natural. My first introduction to bass was playing the upright bass in school orchestra in 7th grade. By 8th grade I had an electric bass and adapted to it right away. When I got it ,I immediately learned the bass parts to the Sgt Peppers album and then all of my other favorite rock band's music by playing along with the records. I continued playing bass in the school orch and electric bass in the school stage band all thru high school and into college. Consequently, learning bass parts by ear and constructing parts to original music has always been easy for me.
 
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The problem with the question is that it's subjective. How long did it take me to get good, or until I reached the point to where I thought I was good, or others said I was good?

I believe I thought I was good way before I was. I can pull out recordings from 30 or so years ago and I would tell you now that I wasn't that good then, but back then I thought I was fantastic.

How long until one reaches a milestone would be easier to pinpoint. How long before I could learn a song on my own can be different from someone who had lessons or someone helping them. How long before I got in a band is different from those who had a lot of musicians in their area looking for players. Just because I got in a band doesn't mean I was good... just means I was good enough for them.

I will however say this to anyone learning; you will get out of it what you put in it. You will have moments of great advancement and spells where it seems you are not progressing.

As long as you love and enjoy the journey and don't get hung up on when something is going to happen, you will be there before you know it.

This is what I apparently did a poor job of trying to say in my OP. The objective questions I was actually looking for answers to are as follows:
How long was it from when you first started playing an instrument until you were regularly playing with others? How long until you joined your first band or music group? How long until you played your first gig? How long until you felt like you were competent or at least felt comfortable referring to yourself as a bass player or (insert instrument) player, or musician?

The other valuable lesson I learned from this thread is that "If you put something in bold print, it will be the only thing that most people read.
 
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How long did it take me to get good?

For me, "to get good" was all about being able to play songs. Play songs accurately and stay in time. That comes with practice.

When I learned how to play my very first song all the way through without screwing up, I felt I was "good".

Being "good" for me is how many songs can I play? Take those "licks and tricks" and stuff 'em! How many songs can we play?

Currently, I think I can play about a 4 hour set. If the set is in the 1-4-5 chord pattern, I can play for eternity.

145_chords.jpg
 
I have always been curious about this. You will rather frequently see a thread from someone just beginning to play an instrument in which they ask the question "How long does it take to get good". The post is often met with multiple replies that all basically boil down to some version of "it depends". We all know that "it depends" is the correct answer, but I am not sure it is usually very helpful. With all that being said I would like to ask the question in a different way. How long did it take you to get good? How long was it from when you first started playing an instrument until you were regularly playing with others? How long until you joined your first band or music group? How long until you played your first gig? How long until you felt like you were competent or at least felt comfortable referring to yourself as a bass player or (insert instrument) player, or musician?
To get things started I have been playing bass for a little over 3 years. I joined my first band about 4 months after I started playing. It was a rock originals/cover band that was apparently very desperate for a bass player. Three bands later I played my first real gig one year and three months after I started playing. After two years I began to feel comfortable referring to myself as a bass player and musician. I still do not feel like I am very good, but I get better every day.

You cannot answer this question without including the famous "it depends" quote. Because there is no way to objectively place a marker which would identify you as a "capable" player.

For some people you have to be "creme de la creme" to be accepted as a good player, to others (especially folks music) instrumental skill is something that is often overlooked in favor of charisma and other entertaining attributes.

There is something though that ends up being very true, the more you progress with your skill in music the more you realize that in reality musical universe is so big, one would need several lifetimes to master everything there is. Thus realizing you are merely a servant of music, not vice versa, and that you should focus on things you want to do and master them slowly piece by piece. That also makes you find out that it is hard to call yourself good at any point in time really. A musician is an eternal student, that's how it is.

You will find musicians stating otherwise but it is honestly just their ego talking. There is not a single musician in the whole world that can claim he/she mastered all styles of music.

At this point I would like to avoid writing a long essay about this issue so "summa sumarum" I hope it is obvious that it is practically impossible to answer your question without sugar-coating the statements in a form of a motivational speech. We all have different ideas what is good for me/you, one might be happy with playing punk rock music with sufficient energy/stage presence, other might find his peace by mastering top 1000 jazz standards and be able to play them in every permutation possible. Both are good, just different flavors of good.

If people understood this previous statement, we would have had much more diversity and tasted of music from the listeners/consumers perspective instead of just focusing to the "argumentum ad populum" trend.

Anyways, you have opened quite a philosophical discussion right there. :)

Edit: To finish up my post completely, I believe the most "capitalistic" answer you can get about this question is: you get good when consumers find you good and pay for your gigs which in return brings you money to support your family. It's all about the sales.

Academic way of thinking will not agree obviously (me included) but what do we know, right? ;)
 
My understanding of the “10,000 hour rule” is that it refers to gaining world-class mastery of an instrument, “virtuosity” if you will, not merely basic competence. I may be wrong though.

For what it’s worth, I started on guitar, self-taught, and for a year I estimate I played/practiced an average of two or three hours a day. By that point I was competent enough to be invited by a guitar player friend to join his band as a bass player. I was very skeptical at first but when I acquired a bass and started playing I took to it very quickly. Within about three months I was doing gigs on bass with a very good band and holding my own. That was 52 years and about 3,000 gigs ago. I’m expecting to get good any day now.
 
This is what I apparently did a poor job of trying to say in my OP. The objective questions I was actually looking for answers to are as
follows:
How long was it from when you first started playing an instrument until you were regularly playing with others? How long until you joined your first band or music group? How long until you played your first gig? How long until you felt like you were competent or at least felt comfortable referring to yourself as a bass player or (insert instrument) player, or musician?

The other valuable lesson I learned from this thread is that "If you put something in bold print, it will be the only thing that most people read.

I think your OP is right on point. Everyone feels like they have something to add, myself included.
I'm always glad to see someone addressing issues that has to do with helping beginners. Sometimes we don't think about it from their perspective and just say "It depends..."

I remember raking together money to send off for some book/tape and when it arrived thinking "This is it, when I finish this I'll be a good player."
I wouldn't trade those hopes and dreams for anything and many times wish I still had that kind of desire to learn. While I still enjoy learning new things, I doesn't compare to that young mind's point of view.
 
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