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How long does it take you to learn a difficult piece.

#61
I find it unpredictable. I remember the last band I was in some songs came to me quickly, some took awhile. Some of it depended on how well I could sing the part. If I had it nailed then my brain knew it and it was fairly easy to learn as long as I had the technical chops for it.

These days I mainly play fiddle and Irish Tenor Banjo and I'm learning a bunch of tunes (working on learning about 150 new tunes). I find that a lot of the learning revolves around patterns. If a tune has patterns that are ingrained in my head then the learning (not necessarily memorizing) is fairly easy. On the other hand if a tune has a bunch of patterns that are unfamiliar or that I don't have ingrained in my brain yet then it can take a long time to learn the tune. To help me, I write out patterns that I'm having issues with and practice them every day without working on the tune they're in. The processes of writting them down helps me learn them and going over them without working on the rest of the tune gives me the reps I need for me to learn them.
 
#62
Jeff Bonny said:
DO NOT BEAT YOURSELF UP OVER THIS. Seriously, that can be habit forming and really **** up your confidence. **** man I've been playing bass forty-two years and I'm still working on the Bach Solo Cello Suites that I started to learn when I was thirteen.
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There is a tricky song I've always had trouble with that I use as an almost daily warmup. I played it two weeks ago with a band and nailed it (albeit I had an ipad cheat sheet for reference but probably could have gotten by without that)...The other day I played it with the same band (different drummer) and it was a train wreck on my part. I still feel bad three days later, and apologized profusely to the B/L about it who was actually cool about it. I probably partied a little bit too much before we went on, and thats what caused it, and that is something I need to work on...If there is stuff floating around in my immediate vicinity I have a hard time saying no.

The funny thing is there are much more challenging songs I play that I can get through without any trouble.

So, to answer the OP's question, it really depends on the song. For some of the harder tunes it doesnt take long, for other harder tunes it takes forever it seems.
 
#65
A difficult piece nowadays takes 2 to 4 sessions on consecutive days. I do short sessions with a metronome and perfect practice regieme. Long sessions are counterproductive. You dont get better muscle memory with longer practice time. Memorization is difficult. If i have a problem remembering a song, i analyze the song and maybe make a crib chart.

The hardest thing I learned so far was the presto movement in Bach's violin concerto in G minor. I was working 12 hr days 7 days a week and living in a work barracks, so i kept my bass in my office and practiced 4:30 am and 6 pm for about 30 minutes. It took about a month to figure out the fingering and be able to play it moderately fast. Learning this piece opened up a lot of new ideas in bass lines and techniques.
 
#66
I might add that my memoriztation efficiency goes in the toilet if i get a 50 song set list two weeks in a row. If all i have to do is sight read, no problema. Makes notes on the score and isolate and work out any sticky areas. Usually will learn 10% faster than actual tempo so i will be less likely to scuff up the performance.
 
#69
There are a few Jaco transcription books with "poor" suggested fingering for Teen Town. I am saying poor based on one finger per fret.

The metronome is your friend for this song. Good exercise to learn fluid motion up the neck.
 
#73
So he played two fingers per fret, or two frets per finger?
Sorry, IamGroot. Not trying to be a wisea$$. I just don't understand. When I was a kid I never raised my hand enough in class. (I'm raising my hand now).
 
#75
bumperbass said:
So he played two fingers per fret, or two frets per finger?
Sorry, IamGroot. Not trying to be a wisea$$. I just don't understand. When I was a kid I never raised my hand enough in class. (I'm raising my hand now).
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Jaco played ofpf as do I, From my ofpf perspective, at least one transcription shows fingering that could be improved imo. However, for a 3 finger player, it might be the best fingering.

Notation is definitive - it tells uou the notes to play. Tab is usually advisory - it tells you the recommeded fingerings (which may not work for your particular playing style).

Jaco' s video/book method was how I learned to play bass. I spent a lot of time with that book, and still refer to it today, although I prefer alternate fingerings to those that require 5 finger stretches although i can play both.

The fast ascending break riff on Havona is another fingering where i feel the transcription books get it wrong. It is actually fairly easy with the right fingering.

Somewhere in the past year, i posted a thread on obsessing on fingering positions and most folks found it too anal. Now i am back with the classical piano crowd and attention to correct fingering is the norm.
 
#77
IamGroot said:
Daryl Jones wrote an article in Bass Player magazine a zillion years ago on finding "better fingering options" which influenced me. Once I started playing Bach, i really began to pay attention to those options.
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Also don't hesitate to change your fingerings when you are bringing the tempo up. Your first findings are most of the time not suitable for the real tempo. I know because I learnt the whole Moto Perpetuo from Paganini and it was a lot of work along with several Bach's pieces :)
 
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#78
IamGroot said:
Daryl Jones wrote an article in Bass Player magazine a zillion years ago on finding "better fingering options" which influenced me. Once I started playing Bach, i really began to pay attention to those options.
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Speaking of those old GP and BP interviews I remember Stanley Clarke saying to practice everything with every fingering you could think. I took that to heart and it turned out to be great advice. Not being locked into only seeing/hearing things one way gives you much greater flexibility to make music.
 
#79
Groove Master. Totally agree. The fingerings for that Bach piece evolved over several months. Even a year later, i occassionally find another imrovement.
Jeff, agree, especially tegarding walking lines, but i usually decide on and lock down fingerings for tough performance pieces.
 
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#80
Jeff Bonny said:
You DO need to put in the daily hours to train your hands to go to the notes
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Ya know this is a good point. To learn how to play the song doesn't take me all that long. Learning to ACTUALLY play the song is what takes me forever. I know what my fingers need to do, getting them to do just that is the hard part. I spend a lot of time in the evenings noodling around on my bass while I watch TV with the wife. I just practice moving around and being consistent. (No amp or anything)
 

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