How many times?

[tastybasslines]

Maki is wiser than Ghandi.

Always quantity! If it moves, its for me!

 

[EricF]

The less you care, the more they will. Works every time.

Also, not trying to sound like a creep here, but are you guys having any drinks when you go out? I'm not talking about trying to get her smashed and take advantage of her, but I've definitely been on my best dates when a few beverages were involved and people let their guards down a little.

Worked for me in college, anyways...

Per the OP...drinks were included early in last Friday's date.

 

[MatticusMania]

I am confident, funny/good sense of humor, great job, own my own house and at 26 I feel at this point I really got my s*it together. All great qualities right, however for the past few years I have never had much luck with women. I have been on dates with younger women, which I knew I would possibly have to deal with the immature and "high school hour" factors, but I have also went on dates with older women who I though would be more mature but turned out to play the games just as well if not better then the younger gals.

Age is not correlated to maturity. My recent ex is 30 with the mindset of a 15 year old. My current gf turns 23 on Saturday and is likely more mature than I am. Im 28, btw.

Last Friday's date should have ended with the clear intention that you want to take the relationship further. You don't need to try to get into her pants right then and there, but at least go for a good kiss. A hug makes being "friended" far too easy.

+1
Sounds like your last date ended on a "youre a cool person" note with a hug, instead of an "I find you attractive" note with a kiss.

Based on what I read, it sounds like she wanted to go back to your/her place, have some drinks and take it further than a hug/kiss goodnight...

I agree. I think people, in the general sense, may be more inclined to take things further on/after a first date than they did in years past, and more especially as they get older. Thinking about it, I seem to have slept with my significant others very early on in the few relationships Ive had.

It's good to have friends, too. I realize that you're looking for more than that, but perhaps she just didn't feel any chemistry there (it happens even after good phone conversations; maybe the alcohol loosened her up a bit temporarily?), and that's OK, but don't burn bridges. Try to be friends if it's convenient or appropriate: you may meet someone else because of her. I met my Lady (who is now my wife!) through an accidental friend of a friend thing...when I was least expecting to meet anyone.

You'll find her - or she'll find you.

If you can appreciate their company without harboring romantic feelings for a them, absolutely. Dont underestimate the value of good friends. Ive met every girl that Ive dated through a female friend.

Sure the hug could of been "friendshipness," however a good kiss on the first date? That in my mind is rushing it, plus if she backs away I could assume I am dead in the water there too.

I dont think I good kiss on a first date is rushing anything. If a first date goes well, what better way to let her know that you like her as more than a friend?

Quantity over quality. Tap them all move on. Stop looking for a relationship, and start looking for hookups. Life has a funny way of giving you the opposite when you shift your priorities. So if you want a relationship, set yourself up for hook ups. If you want hook ups do exactly what you're doing.

Its true. I know I shouldnt say it, but it is. I always end up meeting the girl I fall for when Im not looking to fall for anyone.

 

[Bloodhammer]

I composed a poem.

"Talkbass is but a pheromonal dream"

Oh, the loneliness of TB. Our hearts stretch out to others who do not seize them, but let them snap back into our torsos like rubber bands. Our eyeballs forever searching the blind spots of our periphery - twitching spasmodically - looking for love. How we lament to the icy coldness of the servers our frustration as the recently-dead scream into the void. Surely someone can feel us in the dark? The creeps hover over our beloved siblings, but none creep into our empty beds! Oh woe is it to know the zone of the friends!

 

[Tat2dHeart]

OP - as much as you're trying to avoid the idea that you might show a little of it, the stench of desperation is cloying even from this distance. Lighten up and just set about being yourself and having a good time. Apply Maki's Law liberally. And, often.

And from a woman's perspective....

* Go for the kiss. We like to have a choice in how far you get. Give us something to work with that makes the choice worthwhile. Plus, we like to see if you're a good kisser before we'll consider going on another date with you.

* Yes, the older women sometimes play the games better than the younger women. They're older. They've had more practice. And, if they don't play games, they're usually already spoken for, so it's harder to find the older ones who don't because we're far more scarce.

* Don't give us all your attention at once. Dole it out wisely. It's a good thing if we miss you. We can't miss you if you never go away. We're appropriately grateful when you come back.

* And, this. Just. This.

 

[klejst]

Thanks for the great responses and info. I see now (and kind of knew before but never acted on it) the error of my ways. It does seem the less you seem interested the more the woman becomes. It may not work with all women though because I actually have tried that before and then the woman right away just assumed I was not interested. Also I have gone in for a kiss on the first and second dates before and they backed away and then later dropped the friend card on me. Me being 26 has nothing to do with "take it easy you are young" as I still do go out a lot with my friends and have fun. It's just the dating pool for me as of late has been a sort of downhill spiral. Like I said at times I think I was hex'ed by my last ex

 

[mcnach]

I have searched and found a few similar threads regarding this, however I figured I would share my situation. So I have been single for a couple years now, as in not being in a committed relationship, my last was pretty serious but ended when she abruptly ended it. I am confident, funny/good sense of humor, great job, own my own house and at 26 I feel at this point I really got my s*it together. All great qualities right, however for the past few years I have never had much luck with women. I have been on dates with younger women, which I knew I would possibly have to deal with the immature and "high school hour" factors, but I have also went on dates with older women who I though would be more mature but turned out to play the games just as well if not better then the younger gals.

Most recently is I have been on about six dates with six different women over the last five months, none making it past a first date and on to a second. I try to keep the first dates pretty casual but relaxed and fun. Dinner at a nice place is a classic first date which allows you to talk to each other but I also don't try to make it a game of 20 questions. I also like to incorporate humor when appropriate to lighten the mood as well. I believe that everything goes well, we laugh, engage each other in the conversations (I try to listen more and let her talk more unless she asks) and try to really be a gentleman the who date.

A recent example is last Friday night after talking to a girl on the phone for about two weeks, really had a good convo going, I invited her to go out, she accepted and we made a date. We went to a local restaurant which also has games, I was thinking casual to talk then to have some fun just so we were not staring at each other all night. She expressed numerous times up till Friday how much she was looking forward to Friday's date. Friday night came, I showed up a little early so I just waited for her at the bar. She arrived shortly. We both had a drink at the bar and chatted a little then grabbed a table to grab something to eat and chatted some more. There was a lot of laughing and she constantly touched my arm which is a good sign and messed with her hair. After eating we went and played some games and had some fun. Finally at the end of night I walked to her car and told her I had fun and she replied she did as well. I told her we should do it again and she agreed and then since it was a first date we exchanged a hug then said our good nights.

Saturday I waited until the night to call her, got her voice mail (yellow flag?) and just told her I had a good time...no response back but that is ok I did not really lead on to ask for one in return as I was just following up is all. Then Sunday night I called her again and again voice mail (orange flag?) so I left a message about possibly going out again sometime in the next few weeks and to let me know her schedule whenever she knew it if she was interested and to let me know. Then two hours later I get a text message response (red flag?), basically saying along the lines that she had fun and would love to go out again, however then here comes the bombshell, she mentioned she felt more a friendship vibe between us...yep that dreaded F word.

At this point I knew I was pretty much out so I simply replied being perfectly honest with her with how I was not really looking for another friend (going on a date with someone you would think those intentions of possibly becoming more then friends would of been clear) and also how I was surprised after one date she got that friend vibe right away. Of course I am no dummy it was just a easy cop-out on her part. I have been on enough dates where women have said the same thing and even though they say they want to be friends nothing happens after that and yep I have not heard back from her since.

This gal was 31, five years older then me, I thought we hit it off, had a lot of things in common, but I guess when I showed up she found me to not be Brad Pitt quality or something because I asked her before what she looked for in a guy and being honest and confident in myself I could say I am pretty much what she mentioned. Basically it was like going for a great bike ride only to be stopped by hitting a brick wall this weekend with this woman. At least she let me go and not lead me on even though she did waste my time and I could of went to a movie with my friends Friday instead, but who would of known.

So after being on numerous dates over the last months and nothing becoming of them I don't want to give up, but I also ask when is enough? Girls all play the games, they want something but always settle for the other. I also have just tried letting things happen naturally and nothing ever does so I typically then go back to engaging towards the women and making first contact. I have spent money on these dates as well as wasted time and I get you win some and loose some but man is it frustrating after many "failed dates." I am not going to claim to be God's gift to women, however I have a lot to offer and although not a doormat I am a pretty decent guy who has morals and knows how to treat women.

I know I am young, but I am confident and am not going to say "maybe it is me or what is wrong with me?" This is not meant to be a sob story, however I am at the point in my life where I would like to be in a relationship again. I am not trying to rush anything, but I just cannot get past a first date. At times I think my last ex hex'ed me or put a spell on me and I feel like Dane Cook in Good Luck Chuck (without all the sex ha ha) where I just cannot seem to get anything going. I am also not even going to try to further try to understand women, but man....whew.

You say they play games.
I disagree.
They make it clear early that they are not attracted to you that way...
Disappointing? Maybe at times. They have the right to look for what they want and if you are not it, they move on. Wouldn't you?
I don't know you, so I cannot give you pointers... but sooner or later you will find someone suitable, if you don't try too hard, as nothing is more unappealing than the stench of desperation.
The ones that don't want you as a partner don't owe you an explanation. When you say you are pretty much what they say they wanted... it sounds a bit arrogant to me. How can you presume to know 100% what they want, even if they tried to describe their ideal mate? You don't know them really.
At the end... either you two feel something or you don't. It's not rational. If one of You don't feel it... there's nothing doing.
Don't be bitter. It's what it is.

 

[96tbird]

Yep that's the beginning.

Another thing you need to realize is that attention is a chick's crack. All chicks crave male attention (unless they're not into males). This is why they like to keep guys that they're mildly interested in around as 'friends'. These friends can be used for various purposes. Some are used as sounding boards for their inane thoughts, drama, and 'problems' that they never seek to solve. Some are also used as leverage against other males to get what they want. If they want to get another guy's attention that they may or may not like, they juxtapose that guy's attention against other guys who are interested, but are more or less in the friend zone. So if you're in the friend zone you might get random texts at random times, so they can use your attention to get the attention of another guy they're trying to acquire. Chicks hoard attention. They collect it like fanatical cat ladies. If you want to drive a chick crazy, pay her no attention. The hotter they are, the crazier they get. Some will even tap you just to acquire said attention, even if they're not that attracted to you. So don't be overly attentive to a chick. Make her earn your attention. If she's nice, and receptive, then be nice and receptive back. If she's not reciprocating, then don't shower her with more attention. She didn't earn it. As you roll down the quantity road, you'll discover that some girls are naturally receiving more attention and it seems that you genuinely like hanging out together. These are the keepers and these are usually the ones you wind up settling with. Go forth and conquer.

I said something along these lines in another thread, being only 1/4 serious and got lynched. I even included a source if empirical evidence. I guess you have to be a supastar

OP, just have fun and make sure YOU have fun. It's the woman's responsibility to see that she has fun. If she's not, it's because she's not letting herself. Easy to pick up that on so just move on. And stop spending your money on them at the first few dates. Go do low cost fun stuff.

 

[Dale D Dilly]

Retire to a life of study and reflection. No great contributor to society ever wasted time with romantic relationships.

Seriously though, the dating era is kind of over. Go join a club or community group or take a night class about something you love so that you can meet some women with mutual interests and similar mind sets. Then you get to know them in a real environment instead of the artificial one of being hooked up through friends, over dating services, or by the old-fashioned courtship you might attempt when you just meet someone around town.

I agree with other posts saying she didn't get as much "attention" as she expected on your first date. I'm personally tired of moving too fast with women and can appreciate your pace, but I think most young ladies these days would be pretty offended if you didn't at least try to get into their apartment at the end of the evening.

 

[LarryO]

Grass always greener?

 

[bolophonic]

1. Two weeks is way too long to be talking on the phone before the first date.

2. Once I was divorced and into my 30's, I stopped worrying about trying to get a kiss on the first date. You can let the ladies pursue you a little bit too.

3. I agree that you should consider making more casual dates at your age and save the formal dates for later.

4. It is possible to come across as desperate even if you don't feel desperate.

5. If things seem to be going in the right direction, it doesn't hurt to give some sort of a heads up that you are going to attempt to make out with her. If she is agreeable, it makes the whole thing less awkward. If she is not down, then you can save yourself the embarrassment of making your move and getting a mouth full of hair as she turns and dodges you. This requires flawless execution, however.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I composed a poem.

"Talkbass is but a pheromonal dream"

Oh, the loneliness of TB. Our hearts stretch out to others who do not seize them, but let them snap back into our torsos like rubber bands. Our eyeballs forever searching the blind spots of our periphery - twitching spasmodically - looking for love. How we lament to the icy coldness of the servers our frustration as the recently-dead scream into the void. Surely someone can feel us in the dark? The creeps hover over our beloved siblings, but none creep into our empty beds! Oh woe is it to know the zone of the friends!

"Bloodhammer: Def Poet. Let's get it goin'!" - Mos Def.

 

[boynamedsuse]

Retire to a life of study and reflection. No great contributor to society ever wasted time with romantic relationships.

. . . .

I think this is better advice than it's humorous structure was intended to be.

I am beginning to suspect, based on the OP's comments, that things are off to a less-than-optimal start before the first date commences without him even knowing it. Therefore, I have a few suggestions that may help him or possibly others in this situation.

A gigging bass player, all TB jokes aside, should have no problems with women (and men) coming up to talk. When they do, talk to EVERYONE and treat them with the same interest and respect you would give if a super hot member of the opposite sex approached you. Meeting people is no time to be "screening" anyone. Be nice to the grannys who like your shirt and the 10-year-olds who want to be a bass player when they grow up. This attitude of being nice to people will become very attractive--more so when it becomes a subconscious part of the real you, not the "public" you. By getting good with people, by the time a date rolls around, you should know at least enough about this person that the conversation will flow without too many awkward silences. This will lead to the confidence to be yourself and not second guess regarding whether you should go for a kiss or not.

Of course, other situations work as well as gigs. The gym, the store, the movies (not when you are on a date, of course), etc. The key is to care for and respect everyone you talk to. If you have "selection radar" it will hurt you because it gets "telegraphed."

Other tips (since you are asking):
Be a gentleman, but go for the kiss.
Wait at least couple days but not a week to call back.

 

[klejst]

Thanks for the words of wisdom and pointers everyone. I am a gentleman don't get me wrong and yes I'll admit I am a nice guy, however I generally don't let people walk all over me. But it is generally true that nice guys do finish last or at least I have too when trying to not even be overly nice, compliment giving and I understand I may come off needy, however I suppose it could come off that way in the ways I describe my situation(s). It is actually more frustration more then anything, c'mon no one likes rejection let be honest.

 

[mcnach]

But it is generally true that nice guys do finish last

or they simply finish later

My last year of high school I was crazy about this one girl. I was nice. This other guy was not a nice guy... and she chose him while I was "a good friend" only.

A few years later we met again.
She told me that she wished she'd known then what she knew now... But I had a girlfriend.

A few more years later... we got together. And you know what? I got bored really quickly
So we broke up.

Now we are good friends again.

It is actually more frustration more then anything, c'mon no one likes rejection let be honest.

Of course not. But when I had a rejection I don't make it into something huge that leads me to reassess my values in life... I simply accept that well, some girls just won't be so much into me as I'd like. It's not that I don't care, but... what can you do?
They're not being mean or anything.
At the same time... I don't just go on a date with anyone I have a conversation with and a couple of laughs. As friends? No problem... but I don't immediately measure whether someone is a potential mate.

In late 2009 I broke up with someone I had been together for several years. It was a relief. I had no intention to jump into another relationship anytime soon. But I was open to "fun". I met this girl a couple of months later, and kept bumping into eachother in bars etc... and one thing led to another... but it was just fun. For both of us. We talked about it very early on, as I would not like to lead a girl on if I don't want more than friendship and an occasional hook up. She was in a similar situation. And it was great for a few months. Then, sometime after that summer we sort of realised that we were spending a lot of time together and we liked it... and 2 years later we're planning to move in together when I finish fixing my house.
What I'm saying is... these things appear when you least expect them. Best to relax and have fun. If you try too hard to find things... you may find something alright, but you may wish you hadn't very soon.

 

[bigboy_78]

Quantity over quality. Tap them all move on.

This is probably a bit tongue in cheek, but its true. My wife is the only girl i ever "tapped". I wonder what I missed out on. Tap them all.

 

[lowfreq33]

This is probably a bit tongue in cheek, but its true. My wife is the only girl i ever "tapped". I wonder what I missed out on. Tap them all.

No, he's totally serious.