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How many turns?

T

T2W

Feb 24, 2007
1,175
24
Montreal, Canada.
#1
Hello...
Im usually on the Luthiers Corner, I build basses and now its time to start building my own pickups, I got everything I need, and actually I started winding one, aint finished though cuz Im unsure how many turns I should do. Its a jazz set, 3/4 poles.... aint lookin for any particular sound as of yet, Id just like to get a decent sound for a first set of pups. any recommendations?
 
#3
If you keep it under 10K it should sound alright. Just for a range to experiment with around 7K will be on the thin trebly side and towards 10K will be thick and bassy. Under 7K will likely be too thin, and over 10K will likely start getting muddy.

If you're curious wind one to 10K, but don't solder the end of the coil wire to the eyelet, just tape it to the bottom of the bobbin after soldering it to the lead. Then you can try it, snip the connection, remove some wire, resolder the lead, take a DCR reading, write it down, put it in the bass and try it. Then repeat all that stuff and keep taking notes. You'll get an idea of how much of a certain wire sounds. It's a lot easier to step back and remove wire than to add on. I did that with one...loaded it up and had about 15.5K of 43 and backed off to about 9.75K. That's where I got the 10K from, and that was with 43. If you're using 42 it'll be a little different.

Don't expect your first few to sound real good, but they'll probably sound better than MIJ's with alnico rods anyway.

See you when the coil wire breaks...
 
#5
Take one Fender pickup and remove ALL of the wire (shock!)

  1. find out what wire they are using
  2. Measure out 1 meters of the stuff from the Fender pickup using a home tape measure, and divide the mass by 1000, this gives you the mass per mm of the fender wire
  3. Now take all of the Fender wire, and weigh all of that. Multiply that by the above number, and hey presto! you have the exact length of wire fender use.
  4. Use that much wire in your pup!

Why do this? measuring the fender wire by hand is very inaccurate in comparison, and counting turnings is even less accurate. This way is mathematically quantifiable!
 
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#6
kyral210 said:
Take one Fender pickup and remove ALL of the wire (shock!)

  1. find out what wire they are using
  2. Measure out 1 meters of the stuff from the Fender pickup using a home tape measure, and divide the mass by 1000, this gives you the mass per mm of the fender wire
  3. Now take all of the Fender wire, and weigh all of that. Multiply that by the above number, and hey presto! you have the exact length of wire fender use.
  4. Use that much wire in your pup!

Why do this? measuring the fender wire by hand is very inaccurate in comparison, and counting turnings is even less accurate. This way is mathematically quantifiable!
Click to expand...

Well almost, the wire is most likely potted with wax, so your weight is gonna be off.
 
#7
There's info on pup winding in FAQ, at firebottle (google), and I believe in the luthier wiki stuff.

Never wound a pup and probably won't but read enough on it to determine it wasn't for me. A common approach is to wind them to a given DCR. The wire you use would vary the number of windings to get the same DCR even if you managed to wind them exactly the same otherwise - which is unlikely.
 
#9
DavidRavenMoon said:
7800 turns of 42 AWG.
Click to expand...

there's so much more to it than just # of turns...

obviously for a particularly shaped bobbin (like a jazz), so many turns of a certain gauge = a certain sound...

but the tone of a pickup has to do primarily with inductance and this is dependant upon the geometry, the # of turns, and the core material...then in addition the capacitance comes into play (the interaction between the wire wraps) and this determines the resonant peak frequency...then the resistance (length and gauge of the wire) comes into play and determines the "degree" of the peak or the "Q".

Then, there's the position of the pickup, the strength of the magnetic field, the shape of the magnetic field...

It's really quite complicated...but so simple at the same time (when sticking to fixed criteria, such as #43 wire, jazz shaped bobbins, with Alnico 2 rods and located in the classic jazz positions).

GlennW has the one of the most valid approaches I've seen...overwind it...test it, and keep stripping it off bit by bit until you like the sound...it's such a subjective thing anyway, this is a very good way to really "tailor" a pickup to your liking...

Along the line of Glenn's without having to actually wind your own, you can select a pre-made pickup that you already know is quite hot and dark and modify it by stripping it in the same manner until you like it...

By the way...I had two similarly constructed cheap P-bass pickups in a particular bass...one measured 8.8k the other 14k...the 8.8k was even and mellow and the 14k is a bit hotter and darker...I'm finding that with the 14k, I'm running the passive tone control more open than I had with the 8.8k and this is actually giving me more tonal options since it's paired with a single-coil jazz bridge pickup on this particular bass.
 
#10
PilbaraBass said:
there's so much more to it than just # of turns...
Click to expand...

Ummm.... duh, I think I know that! :D

You're correct of course, but the question was about making a JAZZ BASS pickup. I gave the traditional formula used by Fender.

I don't make Jazz pickups...I wind stuff like this: ;)

DSC03141.jpg


Or if you aren't careful...

DSC03133.jpg
:eek:
 
#11
DavidRavenMoon said:
Ummm.... duh, I think I know that! :D

You're correct of course, but the question was about making a JAZZ BASS pickup. I gave the traditional formula used by Fender.

I don't make Jazz pickups...I wind stuff like this: ;)

DSC03141.jpg


Or if you aren't careful...

DSC03133.jpg
:eek:
Click to expand...


LOL...that's great!

I love the rail humbucker...very cool!

and the second pic looks like you got in a fight with Carrot Top...and won!
 
#12
kyral210 said:
Take one Fender pickup and remove ALL of the wire (shock!)

  1. find out what wire they are using
  2. Measure out 1 meters of the stuff from the Fender pickup using a home tape measure, and divide the mass by 1000, this gives you the mass per mm of the fender wire
  3. Now take all of the Fender wire, and weigh all of that. Multiply that by the above number, and hey presto! you have the exact length of wire fender use.
  4. Use that much wire in your pup!

Why do this? measuring the fender wire by hand is very inaccurate in comparison, and counting turnings is even less accurate. This way is mathematically quantifiable!
Click to expand...


This is absolutely insane :eyebrow:

You want to weight one meter length of 42AWG wire? What kind of scale do you have? You've got about 30 grams of wire in a jazz coil and that's 7800 turns, good luck finding the mass per meter by weighing it.
Why would you want to have the mass per mm of the wire anyway?


Counting turns IS the most accurate. you always end up with the same amount of output +-.1 kOhm, nothing drastic to your final sound at all.


Mario, Anything between 5000 and 10000 will give you enough output. if you feel like experimenting use Gleen's method. It's a great way of learning about pickups.
 
#15
T2W said:
i have trouble imaging even 1000 turns could make a difference
Click to expand...

Oh, you'd be surprised. I recently made a set of pickups for someone who wanted a particular tone from each pickup. The two pickups were made exactly the same, I just varied the amount of wire on them. Even 500 turns can make a difference.

Then you get into different gauges and so on.

Don't worry about the woods and stuff.. the pickups should reproduce what ever the bass sounds like... not what the pickups sound like. ;)
 

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