How many watts do I really need?

[Marko 1]

You're joking, right???


- georgestrings

Well, years ago I got two Fender Pro 410s, put a rack system together for them, but didn’t have the power amp I wanted yet (QSC GX5)...

so I stuck a $99 GemSound XP-350 (I use to power two speakers/mid-field monitors in the music studio) in there, that gave each 410 100 watts RMS, and I was amazed…

it was a long time ago, but I thought it would be loud enough to gig with even in a loud-stage situation.

 

[JimmyM]

Do we need to remind you that your name starts with J?

There was a time when my name didn't start wi...er...I played much louder rock and roll. Did plenty of metal and very hard rock. Used a V4B/810 for all of it.

 

[JimiLL]

I would say: a 4x10 cab or another cabinet with nearly the same speaker surface area, and AT LEAST a good 350 watt solid state head. 300 solid state watts and 300 tube watts are two different things, although I dont want to overwhelm the OP just yet.

For your type of music, and the bass you play, Id say spend around $3-400 on a nice used 4x10, and another $3-400 on a good used solid state head.

Suggestions:


Hartke 3500, LH 500
Ampeg SVT PRO 3
Genz Benz anything
GK 800RB, 700 RB
Older SWR stuff, look for made in the USA

Most 4x10 cabs from any of these companies will do just fine. But I would stay away from the lower end G-K stuff.

That should keep you happy for quite some time!

 

[mpdd]

and brutally ear splitting loud will require more, but that's not what everybody needs

 

[JimiLL]

No doubt - an 810 can move alot of air, but no way could 100 watts work with my current band situation... not to mention that it would be really over-driven, which is a sound that many of us do not want... Sometimes people make it obvious that they have no real experience with loud 2 guitar rock bands...


- georgestrings

Yeah seriously.

" I cant possibly see how my markbass 500 and two 1x12 cabs couldnt be loud enough for any given situation"

 

[Old Fart]

For an outdoor event with more than 250,000 people you'll probably need 100,000 watts. For my bedroom, fifty watts will be plenty.

For shows in between, the more watts the better. The 'adjustable' thing becomes the speakers.

 

[Catbuster]

No doubt - an 810 can move alot of air, but no way could 100 watts work with my current band situation... not to mention that it would be really over-driven, which is a sound that many of us do not want... Sometimes people make it obvious that they have no real experience with loud 2 guitar rock bands...


- georgestrings

This is very true. You have to find a balance between wattage and speakers... But as a rule, matching Ampeg's power ratings as wattage recommended for X cab is a pretty good rule of thumb

 

[ejonn]

... Sometimes people make it obvious that they have no real experience with loud 2 guitar rock bands..

The guys I did my "loud/fast" stage with many years ago were LOUD....schtoopid loud.....Ramones loud......

By the time I had enough on stage it was:
PV F800B - 1x18 and 2x15
Sunn Model T - 8x10

I had enough....
Dang that was fun...

 

[Downunderwonder]

No doubt - an 810 can move alot of air, but no way could 100 watts work with my current band situation... not to mention that it would be really over-driven, which is a sound that many of us do not want... Sometimes people make it obvious that they have no real experience with loud 2 guitar rock bands...


- georgestrings

Just because you like it so loud it's deafening at 50 paces doesn't mean everyone else's "loud" is invalid.

Many inexperiened bands fall into trying to play far too loud everywhere they go. Some of us would like to paint a different picture of the world from the standard bigger is louder is better forever paradigm.

 

[lizardwizard28]

You probably need Mike Watts

 

[Munjibunga]

Did I mention I did a stage volume gig yesterday with a BA110?

Again?

 

[vin*tone]

There was a time when my name didn't start wi...er...I played much louder rock and roll. Did plenty of metal and very hard rock. Used a V4B/810 for all of it.

Please post a photo.

 

[IPYF]

Every now and again you run across a cat who got a 400w head and a decent set of cabs only to discover at rehearsal that he's still getting eaten alive by his guitarists and that the master volume doesn't go any higher.

I'm one such cat. I now have a 750w GK head and this amp suits every plausible situation I could possibly ever ask of it. Unless I get to play a stadium there's nothing it can't do.

Ever notice how you never hear anyone go on about their amp being too loud? Ever hear anyone go on about having too much headroom to spare? Unless you're a tube amp person and you're looking for a certain breakup at a certain volume, the above is not that common.

In my opinion if you want to set yourself up for the properly long haul and any possible eventuality you want a head with a minimum of 600w at 4. If I'd gotten my GK in the first place it would have cost me $1200 which would have nearly bankrupted me, but I would have saved a minimum of 1400 on other mid-power amps that I and my bands eventually outgrew.

I am one of those cats who said at age 19 "Hell. When could I conceivably need more than 400w of power? That's absurd"

At age 22 I had to sell my Eden Nemesis for $300 because it simply couldn't keep up with the Mesa stacks.

I know it's not always financially feasible for everyone but I know that if I had my time over again, I'd go straight for the big guns; even if I had to save up for it for another 2 years. Future me may not ever need all that available power, but he certainly wouldn't have too little of it.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Just because you like it so loud it's deafening at 50 paces doesn't mean everyone else's "loud" is invalid.

Many inexperiened bands fall into trying to play far too loud everywhere they go. Some of us would like to paint a different picture of the world from the standard bigger is louder is better forever paradigm.

Just because he prefers amps with more headroom doesn't mean he's playing at deafening loud levels But I do see your point.

 

[sratas]

another vote here for the SPEAKER value.

many contemporary bass heads are capable of producing a huge amount of power.
Cone area and other speaker parameters matter...the argument is really though but, for simplicity you can think of: use as much cab as you need. More, don't be fooled by the evergreen myth of underpowering cabs, and there you go.
Even a 200 watts amp hooked with two 4 x 10 can hammer far beyond expectations, physics rule.
On stage, as a monitor (PA support) ,even a 80 watts 1 x 10 amp is far enough, on stage outrageous volumes are seldom considered dangerous, and it's true.

 

[joelb79]

For an outdoor event with more than 250,000 people you'll probably need 100,000 watts.

For 250,000 people with a Maximum a-weighted SPL of 105db at every seat, your gonna need a LOT more watts than 100,000. It's common to see over a million audio watts at shows that large. That's a factor of 10 there. I mean you have Dave Rat saying that he has 200,000-300,000 watts at an 18,000 seat area for Red Hot Chilli Peppers, and I hear that show is loud. how did you figure that 250,000 would be covered by 100,000 watts?

Or are you talking 333 SVT heads running into 666 810's? That's 100,000 watts right there, and frankly that's a bit much for near-field monitoring if you ask me.



IMO, there is no reason a bass player should need more than 1000w for a near-field monitoring situation or gig situation, with the exception going to guys who want to bi-amp and those who play below the B note on a 5 string.

 

[Laurent]

300 to 700 watts.

 

[KeithAlanK]

I skipped pages 2-4 so please forgive me if it's already been mentioned, but the best advantage of having more speakers (for example a pair of 4x10" cabs) is that the top speakers are MUCH easier to hear.
With the bottom cab coupled to the floor for a couple of "free" dbs, it's win-win.
Your knees don't have ears, so it can be a good idea to stack a single 410 on a road case or even some chairs to get it up where you can hear it better without pushing the volume too much.

Back when I was an '80s metal guitard, I re-wired my 4x12" cabs so that I could run just the top 2x12"s in stereo, or the whole top cabinet in mono, or both 412s, or even add a 3rd cab with a spare head. It was all about using the right number of drivers for the room while also making sure the speaker(s) that got mic'd were running hot enough to get some compression plus overcome background sources of sound like snare drum.
I recently worked with a guy who had to be begged to turn his Mesa Triple Rectifier up enough to overcome the toms and bass leaking into his cab's mic.

Long story short, use more speakers but only enough to get the job done.

 

[joelb79]

Long story short, use more speakers but only enough to get the job done.

I can hear myself better than an 810 with a 15/6/1 cabinet. Sometimes less is more.

 

[JimmyM]

Please post a photo.

We did tons of old BOC, AC/DC, Sabbath, UFO, etc. Pretty good band, actually. Even had flashpots.