Double Bass How much and what to practice to start plaing in an orchestra

[MartinBorgen]

Hello. I have started practicing with the bow now as well - I am a beginner on double bass since this year. I plan to start playing in an orchestra as soon as I can, as it is really good for your playing. When is as soon as i can. When do I can, so to speak?

In other words, what should I learn, and what should I practice to be able to start playing in an orchestra? Of course I'm not planning to start tomorrow in the royal philharmonics or anything like that (that is a much later question), but to get going. Before you say it, I do have a teacher, but i want to know as much as I can. I don't see my teacher every day you know, that's why TalkBass exists, right?

Then, to make it easier for you. I read scores. I'm good at reading them, though it's not wholly the same thing as playing by them. I've played sax in a wind ensemble for a long time, so my treble clef reading on sax is the most solid, but since some time ago I started playing alot of EB by scores (in a wind ensebmle), so now I'm pretty good at playing by bass clef too. On EB... I know it's another thing to play by scores on DB.

I'g guess bowing is a pretty obvious thing as well. Aside from the mandatory things as intonation, what more is there?


of course this varies for what kind of orchestra you apply for. but I think most here have been through the stage I have...

 

[David Potts]

Depending on your age your first orchestra might be a local youth orchestra, a community amateur orchestra or a small string orchestra (where you might be the only bassist).

The range of notes most common in orchestras is from the bottom open E string to the second octave F on the G string at the base of the neck.

Your left hand can be likened to a machine that is locating precise places on each string to create new shorter string lengths that produce each note. Your teacher will be guiding you through the process of finding and moving between.these"notes", probably starting with the two lowest hand positions that will find all the notes chromatically between the bottom E and B on the G string. This is nearly half the range of the bass!! It is also where the bass sounds like a bass, so it is used a lot in orchestral playing. When I teach a beginner the bass I will most likely teach the Simandl positions I, 1/2, II, III and V in that order so that they will soon know all the notes up to the second octave F and the most common scales and arpeggios. We will come back and infill the missed positions later, using studies and pieces in the more difficult keys. By then they will also have a basic working knowledge of the use of the bow and of pizzicato.

The bow is your main weapon of expression. You need to have learned enough about holding and using the bow to control note starts, stops and the length in between, which includes the basic bowing patterns and styles (eg slurred bowing and separate bowing, here on-string and off-string). Also how to project a nice clear deep bass sound .

You come more than part-trained because you can already read music well and have played in ensembles. This is a great start. The above basic knowledge will get you started in an orchestra but you will soon realize that to play bass well and contribute strongly in an ensemble requires quite a lot more sophisticated knowledge about note finding and bowing, as well as ensemble etiquette and the role you play.

Your first rehearsal will be scary and you will be confronted by lots of people welcoming you and wishing you well. You will make mistakes and not play all the notes. This week you will play 100 notes, next week 500 notes and then you are off and running!

There is a good book full of concise helpful information by Warren Benfield called "The Art of Double Bass Playing" that is available quite cheaply via Amazon, I currently have two mature age students who are at the same stage as you. Both have just attended their first rehearsal with amateur orchestras here and I have just pointed them at this book too.

Good luck and have lots of fun!!

DP

 

[MartinBorgen]

Very informative post, thank you very much!

 

[Tim4]

Could I ask how you would reply differently to someone in my position?

I am in my thirties and have played double bass for around ten years. I have only ever played finger style and limited myself to simple jazz standards and church music. I am only comfortable using the 'starter' postitions you mention above and I have never attempted to read music.

I have now acquired a taste for classical music, and like the initial post in this thread want to learn bow and join an orchestra or ensemble.

Any tips on how I should practice or what I should concentrate on? My main problem is that after playing in bands reverting back to twinkle twinkle little start and bowing on open strings is quite boring! :-(

Many thanks for your comment.

 

[Phil Smith]

Could I ask how you would reply differently to someone in my position?

I am in my thirties and have played double bass for around ten years. I have only ever played finger style and limited myself to simple jazz standards and church music. I am only comfortable using the 'starter' postitions you mention above and I have never attempted to read music.

I have now acquired a taste for classical music, and like the initial post in this thread want to learn bow and join an orchestra or ensemble.

Any tips on how I should practice or what I should concentrate on? My main problem is that after playing in bands reverting back to twinkle twinkle little start and bowing on open strings is quite boring! :-(

Many thanks for your comment.

I would say find someone to study with to work on your technique and your reading and also get more adventurous about other areas of the bass. If you mental think it's going to be impossible that's going to impede your ability to play in the other areas effectively. You're initial experiences playing in a orchestra or ensemble will be painful as there's a lot to take in, the conductor, the notes, dynamics, tempo, keeping track of where you are, are a big challenge at first but does get to be less of a challange the more you do it. The first step is stepping outside of your comfort zone.

 

[MartinBorgen]

oh yeah, restarting always feel like a suck in the beginning. I started playing sax, then realized I wanted to play the Bass guitar, then realized I wanted to play Jazz on a double bass. But after all this, I know myself well enough to see the symtpoms indicating that soon I'll want to play classical music too. So while I'm still learning the instrument, I'm going to learn both sides of it, so I won't have to go back later and re-start.

 

[Hawaii Islander]

You might check with your local high school music department to find a teacher that teaches stringed instrument students for their orchestra. They could at least direct you to someone that can give you the lessons you need or provide guidance directly.

I studied upright bass in an orchetral setting in high school years ago. It took me several hours of practice per week, help from an instructor and daily rehersals to prepare for school sponsored winter and spring concerts.

 

[David Potts]

Having a teacher is very important, Tim4, if you can afford it and find one locally. I would specify a teacher of orchestral bass, because you will spend most of the time using a bow to produce sound. I use the acronym HEE (Hands, Eyes and Ears) to describe the learning process. Your HANDS are taught to create the notes, your EYES to read the music and your EARS to hear the notes, guide your hands and act as quality control. The process is not necessarily difficult or long but is best done with a teacher. Learning to read bass music is not difficult because it is a stepped process that goes on in parallel with learning to find the notes. For instance The Simandl Tutor only uses three basic lengths of notes at walking speed for the first 68 pages, while you are learning note and fingering possibilities.

Most would agree that teaching yourself is too difficult an alternative, fraught with the risk of creating bad habits.

There's lots of good advice above.

Best wishes,

DP

 

[Tim4]

Many thanks for all the thoughts. I agree that a teacher would be great - for both ability and keeping bad habits at bay.

If anyone is reading this and in the same position, I've just taken delivery of a playalong book/cd called double bass playtime - seems to be a great tool as the songs are good (credible I would say!) but the music is simple enough for beginners. I am especially enjoying learning with a simple Mozart piece called Allegro.?

 

[barbarbass]

Someone above -- without looking, even, I can tell you it was said -- has already said, "Find a teacher." That can be tricky, and cost-prohibitive. However, it is absolutely necessary.

If, however, you are trying to take yourself to a minimum level of competency, this can be done via the Simandl method. In fact, I believe Simandl designed the book to be used in a "self-study" sort of way. At least the first part of the (first) book could be used in this way -- if you observe his fingerings very carefully (make a copy of the fingering chart at the start and drill it into your head) you should avoid major self-harm. Although, again, a teacher is preferable.

Forget about the other methods -- at least when you are in the nascent stage. Simandl is still the gold standard. It is the clearest, and the most ergonomical. Once you have mastered at least that portion of the method which goes through the first seven positions, then you can branch out into other books (ie., Rabbath, Nanny, Petracchi, etc.).

P.S.: Do try to find a teacher, though.

 

[koricancowboy]

Someone above -- without looking, even, I can tell you it was said -- has already said, "Find a teacher." That can be tricky, and cost-prohibitive. However, it is absolutely necessary.

If, however, you are trying to take yourself to a minimum level of competency, this can be done via the Simandl method. In fact, I believe Simandl designed the book to be used in a "self-study" sort of way. At least the first part of the (first) book could be used in this way -- if you observe his fingerings very carefully (make a copy of the fingering chart at the start and drill it into your head) you should avoid major self-harm. Although, again, a teacher is preferable.

Forget about the other methods -- at least when you are in the nascent stage. Simandl is still the gold standard. It is the clearest, and the most ergonomical. Once you have mastered at least that portion of the method which goes through the first seven positions, then you can branch out into other books (ie., Rabbath, Nanny, Petracchi, etc.).

P.S.: Do try to find a teacher, though.

While I agree Simandl is excellent and a command of his exercises in major and minor are the minimum of ability level for orchestral playing, I know many players who have come up with both Bille and Nanny with great success (CSO to name one). I believe Nanny and Bille both as well as others can serve just as well as Simandl. I prefer Simandl because that is what I co=ame up with. Petracchi is for higher technique, as evidenced by the title and as far as Rabbath, Vance has a great method to prepare you for that. I sometimes think Simandl is even a bit advanced for absolute beginners. (double sharps in half position?!) Talk to your teacher and see what he/she prefers. Btw, bowing is about as unobvious as you get. Good luck, the orchestra is a pretty addicting drug!

 

[damonsmith]

While I agree Simandl is excellent and a command of his exercises in major and minor are the minimum of ability level for orchestral playing, I know many players who have come up with both Bille and Nanny with great success (CSO to name one). I believe Nanny and Bille both as well as others can serve just as well as Simandl. I prefer Simandl because that is what I co=ame up with. Petracchi is for higher technique, as evidenced by the title and as far as Rabbath, Vance has a great method to prepare you for that. I sometimes think Simandl is even a bit advanced for absolute beginners. (double sharps in half position?!) Talk to your teacher and see what he/she prefers. Btw, bowing is about as unobvious as you get. Good luck, the orchestra is a pretty addicting drug!

Agreed, and obviously I am not an orchestra player but I have a few students who went on to be.
The key argument for Simandl as a default method is that it is still probably easiest to find a teacher who teaches out of it. The book is also cheaper and easier to track down.
If you find a teacher who teaches out of one of the other methods it will be fine.