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How much is a safe line level

B

boomboom4200

Dec 12, 2012
211
2
northwest corner CT
#1
We do a gig, outdoor, headline.big open feild, little bigger than a football field. Seven or eight thousand people
This is only my second year with these guys.it's a situation where this is the absolute height of our year.and we only play 4 or 5 times a year and those shows are way small rooms.
Last year we had to run on stage after the band before us and our sound check was like 5 seconds each instrument and them BAM, right into our first song.wife said she couldn't hear me.what can I do to remedy this? Line level out?
I play an ampeg 410 svt3 and an American p deluxe. I feel way more comfortable and wanna be heard this year thanks for any help
 
#2
If you have PA support, there is nothing else left to do (line level is what the mixing console gets fed via a DI).

Your last time playing there, the soundman had to do a quick level check and get you guys going.

Unless you get a good soundcheck, the soundman uses the first couple of songs to get things right - nothing for you to do but keep playing.
 
#5
I am assuming you have a DI on your head with an adjustable range.

It depends on the soundman and what equipment he is using. During a line check, they will tell you if it is too hot, or if you need to boost it.

I keep mine at around 50%, and tell the soundman that my DI has adjustable output and to let me know if it is good or needs adjustment.
 
#7
Set it at 50% that way it should be a strong enough signal without overdriving the input on the mixer. Seriously if there is actually 7-8000 people in attendance it should be a pro sound system and operator. If not it is a major fail on whoever is in charge.
 
#9
I'd be wary of pumping my DI signal. I use an Avalon and was using the line level out to feed boards. Every time, I was just clobbering their board and had to set the gain very low on the Avalon and do a bunch of tweaking to bring the signal level down. I've since switched to the Mic level out and haven't had an issue since.

Edit: As said above, the moral of the story is that it's in the hands of the FOH guy. Did you remember to buy him a beer before the gig?
 
#10
the explode man said:
I'd be wary of pumping my DI signal. I use an Avalon and was using the line level out to feed boards. Every time, I was just clobbering their board and had to set the gain very low on the Avalon and do a bunch of tweaking to bring the signal level down. I've since switched to the Mic level out and haven't had an issue since.

Edit: As said above, the moral of the story is that it's in the hands of the FOH guy. Did you remember to buy him a beer before the gig?
Click to expand...

The problem you had was with the FOH guy, not your equipment. The Avalon is one of the best units available. The guy plugged your LINE level you sent him to a MIC input. Line level is way to hot for a mic input. That's why you had to do a bunch of tweaking. What he should have done was feed your signal into the LINE input on his console. There would have been no problem. I tell you this so you can tell the next house engineer. There is nothing wrong with your equipment.
 
#11
audioglenn said:
The guy plugged your LINE level you sent him to a MIC input.
Click to expand...
Correct in theory, but in practice too many soundmen don't have ALL of the adapters they might need a few times a year. XLR from the snake to 1/4" TRS are the single most lost and stolen item we're expected to have. And most mixers have preamps that'll handle a hot signal anyway.

After spending many thousands of $$ on speakers amps cables board snake trailer truck compressors effects power distribution mics stands more cables drum mics/clips etc etc endless etc, we stop spending money and expect to earn some.


I will repeat yet again the advice soundmen wish you would take, because it benefits YOU:

Get your act together.
You want to be mic'd, buy your own GOOD mics and stands and XLR cables and we'll buy YOU a beer.
Or get a nice preamp with a perfect XLR output that really captures your tone, as I do--EVERY soundman I work with wants to kiss me, but I don't roll that way...

Bring your own DI box that translates your tone straight from the bass--ever price RADIAL brand stuff? It's great, if you can afford it. Most soundmen have run out of $$ by now and bought some cheap DI box that isn't so great, but their kids need shoes....
Buy a SansAmp that'll not only give you excellent control over what goes to FOH but will likely improve what comes out of your amp.

Take control of your own signal!!
I can guarantee that IF you have a good tone that works with your band and bother to put together a way to translate that in a FOH-friendly way, you will have respect and love from the soundman.

Vocalists need to find THE mic that best suits their voice and bring that to every show, too! Soundmen aren't the microphone store of your dreams--they are trying to put together a system that'll handle most jobs, and quantity trumps quality sometimes.
That's why you see a ton of Shure 58s or Beta 58s for vocals even though other brands and condensers are way better choices much of the time.

My band presents each sound company with our own carefully considered selection of mics and direct signals that almost always work with whatever they are using, and we never fail to receive compliments on how we sound and how seamlessly we interface with their gear and make their job almost too easy.

The guitard has it easy, because a 57 is what his amps are designed to feed.
But when I run sound for him in a cover band I add a condenser mic to the other speaker for more options, because he's already made my life so easy--see how this works?

Give the soundman a trouble-free and great-sounding signal, and he might go above and beyond because we LOVE great sounds!
 
#13
Big outdoor systems, lots of subs, maybe 100,000 watts of PA, I recommend forgetting what you try to do indoors on small systems.
The main idea is clarity in the frequency range you actually hear rather than feel, so roll the bass knob down to 10:00 or even less, for several reasons.
First, your amp will project further and you can turn it up louder when you aren't wasting watts and speaker cone efficiency on deep lows that are going to be no problem out front. And you WILL feel the PA subs as well as the monitors on big stages.
You also won't be hitting the soundman's compressor with a lot of lows, so instead of clamping down on a muddy bassy signal it'll instead tame and clarify the upper body of each note, giving you a much more dynamic yet controlled result out front.

As for signal level from your direct out (I run sound for a guy all the time with the same amp/cab as you) start with 12:00, just as you should with EQ knobs. As long as it's not crazy high or low as a result of too much gain somewhere in your signal chain, the results should be good.
That amp has a nice DI, but when my buddy tries to get the stage to rumble it makes it almost impossible to get the notes and tone heard rather than felt, and I've tried everything.


audioglenn said:
+1. Well said, KeithAlanK!
Click to expand...
(Thanks, man. Apologize to the OP for my earlier rant. Wasn't directed at him.)
 
#14
audioglenn said:
The problem you had was with the FOH guy, not your equipment. The Avalon is one of the best units available. The guy plugged your LINE level you sent him to a MIC input. Line level is way to hot for a mic input. That's why you had to do a bunch of tweaking. What he should have done was feed your signal into the LINE input on his console. There would have been no problem. I tell you this so you can tell the next house engineer. There is nothing wrong with your equipment.
Click to expand...

I never thought there was anything wrong with my equipment. Usually when we do our setup, we are unplugging the previous band's setup from the snake and switch ours in 1-for-1 into whatever the previous band was in, ie: unplug the bass xlr, plug in mine; unplug the guitar xlr, plug ours in. It's just easier not having to worry or communicate what level the signal is coming to them at, as tone was not impacted by this.
 
#15
Know your equipment......
Most amp DI's are line level and effected by preamp gain level as well as a level control on the back of the amp.
Start with it at a low level.

Most systems with a snake are patched into the mixer via xlr/mic preamps.
The sound person needs to know if you are sending mic level or line level!

If you set you're amp DI out at 80% and the sound board does not have a pad engaged or needs an xlr to TRS physically attached to swap to a line input.....you could toast a channel on the console, or damage speakers.

Start low and tell the sound person you are sending LINE level. The sound person can bring the level up at the console if needed or tell you if more is needed at your end.

Musicians always say sound people can be Grouchy....this is why. You'd be pissed too if someone damaged your gear.
If you want to play professionally, be a professional by learning as much as you can about your gear and what you need to patch it into a professional system and communicate with the sound person.

I had a guy warn me that his sennheiser wireless mic was really hot. I couldn't trim the gain down enought and it was overloading the channel. I went thru the menus on the transmitter to find the gain setting full on/peaking.....turned it down and readjusted mixer trim and just shake my head. Never bothered to read the manual on his own gear I'm sure. I usually download and read manuals on gear a few times before I dole out the $$ for it.
 
#17
On my particular mixer the pre amps can except up to +21dbu with the trim off/at unity (so you can't turn it down unless you use a line input) however if a bass amp line out is cranked to 80% (could be +10 dbu or +20dbu who knows) and you're doing a line check you would normally not have your pre amp trims all the way off (unless someone let you know they are sending you line level) and get a surprise thats +20 to +80dbu depending where your trim is set.

With the line input unity is at 11 o clock so you can actually turn it down below unity and attenuate the signal -20du in addition to the -20dbu the line input provides.

If you know your signal is an amp DI line level instead of a Mic level from a DI box, it reduces the risk of damaging gear.
 

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