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How much is overkill these days?

Argali

Argali

Aug 19, 2008
389
222
49
Portland, OR
#1
I'm in the process of putting a new rig together. It's been years since I've played with a band. In my last one, pre-COVID, I used an old Peavey TNT 150, and that was plenty - but the music was kinda pop-punk, and I typically play metal, with louder, harder-hitting drummers.

So, my criteria for the new rig is to keep everything under $1,000 and able to fit in my dinky Sentra. As I hunt around the usual spots for used amps, GK heads pop up quite a bit for very reasonable amounts. But is a 1001RB-11 700/50W just overkill if you're not actively gigging? I've always liked the GK sound but wonder if it's better to hunt down something with fewer watts. Curious what y'all think.

​

 
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#2
I don’t think it would be overkill at 8 ohms. You do have 3 ways to turn it down as well with the gain, boost, and master knobs. Also the effects return on the front is convenient if you’d like your tone to come from pedals or simply want to hear the power section uncovered by the preamp.

I am biased, I regularly use a 700RB and I barely have it opened up most of the time. I think if you can get a great deal on the GK and use the rest of your budget on the cab you’d be all set. You’ll need more cash to get a compact cab with good performance since vehicle cabin space is limited.
 
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#3
There's also the powered cab and preamp rabbit hole.. I've been getting curious about it.
I use a quilter bb800 with a trace elliot 2x8 cab
The quilter is 450w at 8 ohms and the trace can handle 400w at 8 ohms, so I just don't turn it up so the way. I do normally cut my bass signal at around 80hz and the cab doesn't go much lower then that. I can take the bus to a show if I gotta.
 
#8
Some ideas that may help you.

It's usually better to have more power than you need, rather than not enough. The volume knob on most amps works pretty well.

Typically a smaller cab will be less efficient and have a lower power rating. This means more power is required for a given SPL. It also means the cab's max SPL is lower.

Ideally you would have an idea about how much headroom you need. Then you can use specs to help make better gear choices. Over the years I have have found that a rig rated for 124dB typically meets my needs. I can get the job done with a rig rated for 118dB, but playing with insufficient headroom is frustrating.

SPL results from how much usable power is available and how efficient your cab is.

Usable power is the lower figure between how much power the amp can produce and how much power the speaker can handle. Use the RMS power ratings.

Sensitivity tells you have how much SPL a speaker produces on-axis 1 meter from the cone with a specified signal level. We need Sensitivity expressed at 1W/1m. For example if you have Sensitivity = 97dB 1W/1m, its means 1 Watt is applied and 97dB is measured at a distance of 1meter.

To estimate the SPL an amp cab combination is capable of use this formula:

Calculated SPL = [Log(Usable Power) x 10] + Sensitivity.

(FYI) The part in the brackets calculates the decibel difference between 1W and Usable power.

Let say we have an 8 ohm cab rated for 300W RMS with Sensitivity of 97dB 1W/1m. Let's say we have an amp that is rated 400W at 8 ohms. Usable power is only 300W, because that is all the speaker can safely use.

Calculated SPL = [Log(300) x 10] + 97 = ~121.8dB.

~121.8dB is a bit lower than my desired baseline. More power will not help, but adding a matching cab will.

If you add a matching cab connected in parallel, combined impedance is 1/2, combined power handling is 2x, and combined sensitivity is +3dB.

With two cabs:
  • Power Handling = 600W
  • Impedance = 4 ohms
  • Sensitivity = 100dB 1W/1m

A tube amp will produce the same power as long as it sees the expected load. So if you can add a matching cab, the power stays the same and you get about 3dB more headroom due to the increase in sensitivity.

Solid state amps often produce more power as the impedance goes down. Check the amp's specs for minimum impedance and how much power it can produce at different impedances. If the amp doubles the power when you add a matching cab you get +6dB. 3dB is due to increased sensitivity and 3dB is from doubling the power.

Many solid state amps only increase the power by about 60-70%.

Let say our amp makes 400W at 8 ohms and 60% more at 4ohms. 400 x 1.6 = 640W. Keep in mind usable power is only 600W for the cabs in our example.

Calculated SPL for two cabs at 600W = [Log(600) x 10] + 100 = ~127.8dB.

There are situations where this may not be enough headroom, but ~127.8dB is louder than I am willing to play. YYMV
 
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#10
Argali said:
I'm in the process of putting a new rig together. It's been years since I've played with a band. In my last one, pre-COVID, I used an old Peavey TNT 150, and that was plenty - but the music was kinda pop-punk, and I typically play metal, with louder, harder-hitting drummers.

So, my criteria for the new rig is to keep everything under $1,000 and able to fit in my dinky Sentra. As I hunt around the usual spots for used amps, GK heads pop up quite a bit for very reasonable amounts. But is a 1001RB-11 700/50W just overkill if you're not actively gigging? I've always liked the GK sound but wonder if it's better to hunt down something with fewer watts. Curious what y'all think.

​

Click to expand...
The 1001 would be overkill IMO, but the 700 would be just right. If I didn't travel as much as I do I wouldn't have sold my old 700 off (another reason I sold it was I was hearing that the new RB line was 'about to come out' - this was in early 2020).
 
#11
DaveParker39 said:
The Rumble 800 combo is in your price range, plenty loud but has a low power mode, and is only 29lbs.

Not the GK sound, but might be worth trying one out.
Click to expand...
I'd second trying the Rumble 800 just for the convenience factor alone. Every time I have to lift a Rumble it's a pleasant surprise because of how light they are. I remember moving around much less powerful combos that weighed 2-3x more.
 
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#12
Argali said:
I'm in the process of putting a new rig together. It's been years since I've played with a band. In my last one, pre-COVID, I used an old Peavey TNT 150, and that was plenty - but the music was kinda pop-punk, and I typically play metal, with louder, harder-hitting drummers.

So, my criteria for the new rig is to keep everything under $1,000 and able to fit in my dinky Sentra. As I hunt around the usual spots for used amps, GK heads pop up quite a bit for very reasonable amounts. But is a 1001RB-11 700/50W just overkill if you're not actively gigging? I've always liked the GK sound but wonder if it's better to hunt down something with fewer watts. Curious what y'all think.

​

Click to expand...
$1,00O for a quality cab and amp for that genre is going to be tough unless you are buying used. The other qualifier is the size of car is going to reduce options further.

More so than your amp, your choice of speaker cab is going to be extremely critical. Cab efficiency is an often overlooked. I’m not at all familiar with metal, but as I understand it, guitars are down tuned with a lower EQ bent that you need to get “under” and that means a cab able to handle significant wattage with and extended frequency range.

The 1001RB has a bi-amp feature that offers a separate channel for driving a mid range speaker which can provide clarity when your main EQ is very bass heavy. There aren’t a lot of cabs out there that have the mid range driver in them, so you may have to get a second cab or not use that feature. Bi-amping is out dated these days as most cabs are now full range.

As for the 700 watts, that would require a 4 ohm load I assuming (and it can better be rated for at least 700 watts RMS or more). With an 8 ohm cab the out put would be approximately 1/2 (always consult the owner’s manual) and that cab should be rated for at least what the amp’s output will be. To put the wattage into perspective, the venerable SVT amp only put out 350 watts, so even at an 8 ohm load, it will cover a lot of applications providing you have an efficient cab.

Definitely overkill for home use. Two things, I’ll bet the volume knobs works for when you are home. And if you join a band, you will have an amp that will serve you well.

Last tip,shop at guitar Used Gear Online. The have a tremendous selection of used gear that cones with a 100% satisfaction money back guarantee. Extended warranties are available for purchase. If there is a store near you, have it shipped there as opposed to your home to try it out. If you like it, take it home. If not send it back and order something else. Over the last 15 years I’ve obtained more that a few great deals.

Best wishes.
 
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#13
Argali said:
So, my criteria for the new rig is to keep everything under $1,000 and able to fit in my dinky Sentra. As I hunt around the usual spots for used amps, GK heads pop up quite a bit for very reasonable amounts. But is a 1001RB-11 700/50W just overkill if you're not actively gigging? I've always liked the GK sound but wonder if it's better to hunt down something with fewer watts. Curious what y'all think.

​

Click to expand...

Pic is one of my gigging set-ups that I put together by watching and buying used from the T.B. Classifieds.

(SansAmp BDDI V1 pedal > G.K. MB Fusion 800 head > Bergantino CN212 cabinet.)

All, were bought used in good to mint condition over a couple of months of watching the T.B. Classifieds.
Total investment, $1,100.00.

Great sounding at any level with power behind the notes, capable of being VERY loud with enough wattage to maintain it's composure at that level, light weight and easy to transport cab that's dimensions are 31" H x 18.5" W x 15"D, (I'm guessing that'd easily fit in a Sentra.)
 

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#14
Argali said:
I'm in the process of putting a new rig together. It's been years since I've played with a band. In my last one, pre-COVID, I used an old Peavey TNT 150, and that was plenty - but the music was kinda pop-punk, and I typically play metal, with louder, harder-hitting drummers.

So, my criteria for the new rig is to keep everything under $1,000 and able to fit in my dinky Sentra. As I hunt around the usual spots for used amps, GK heads pop up quite a bit for very reasonable amounts. But is a 1001RB-11 700/50W just overkill if you're not actively gigging? I've always liked the GK sound but wonder if it's better to hunt down something with fewer watts. Curious what y'all think.
Click to expand...

What is your goal? Getting back in a metal band?
If so, then overkill is a song/album by Motörhead.

...but I want to agree with most posters here. Don't blow your budget on the amp head.
Find the biggest, baddest and loudest cab that can fit into your car first, and buy an amp with what's left.
 
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#15
When would more watts be overkill? That is what the volume knob is for. I've had 1000 watt, 1200 watt and even a 1600 watt heads that I used to practice in my home practice space (a bedroom). IMHO, I would rather have enough watts for any circumstance than to have an amp pushed into possible failure trying to keep up. My current rig is a 750 watt head through an ultralite 210/112 stack which can handle most situations. Anything needing more would more than likely go through front of house anyway.
 
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#16
dbsfgyd1 said:
The 1001RB has a bi-amp feature that offers a separate channel for driving a mid range speaker which can provide clarity when your main EQ is very bass heavy. There aren’t a lot of cabs out there that have the mid range driver in them, so you may have to get a second cab or not use that feature. Bi-amping is out dated these days as most cabs are now full range.
Click to expand...
Sorry but this is not correct.

Some of the earlier RB series amps had a variable crossover and the high amp could be used to drive a midrange. This includes 800RB and 2000RB.


The 700RB, 1001RB, and 2001RB have a fixed crossover set to 5kHz, and the high amp is used to drive tweeters. The GK cabs designed to work with these amps include RBH series and series I, II, and III Neo cabs. Series IV Neo cabs do not have the biamp capability.
 
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#17
Buy a couple of the GK combos. The MB15" is 200 watts, and can be gotten for about $500. That should do you for most gigs. Then, if you need to, buy a powered cab and daisy chain them together if needed. Give you a 400-watt 2 x 15". Or, any higher powered combo like a Rumble 500 with extension cab capabilities.
 

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