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How much should a custom luthier make per hour?

#21
I agree with you, Munji. Sadly, many of the best luthiers I know barely make minimum wage, because they are perfectionists and spend several hours making perfect what would be "plenty good enough" after one hour.
 
#26
Means2nEnd said:
$50 - $100 hr I think is fair for a skilled craftsman with a respectable reputation. I think that more than puts in perspective the cost for a Fodera.

What I would like to hear from some builders is the approximate cost of goods to make a high end bass and the approximate amount of hours to build from lumber to final product. Using high end to medium woods and electronics and maybe the cost of some of the bigger machines used. That would be cool to know.
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$50-100 ?????

The guy that fixes your car or pluming makes that much or more and they get benefits.

I dont believe I gave my full thoughts.
If he has enough work to keep himself busy enough to bill 40 hours a week and builds a high quality bass and has a good business plan he should net $80,000 to 100,000 +
 
#28
hdracer said:
$50-100 ?????

The guy that fixes your car or pluming makes that much or more and they get benefits.

I dont believe I gave my full thoughts.
If he has enough work to keep himself busy enough to bill 40 hours a week and builds a high quality bass and has a good business plan he should net $80,000 to 100,000 +
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Now that's what I'm getting at. And those numbers seem fair to me. But as landau roof says, it's not for me to say.
 
#29
Not including cost of supplies (and tools I suppose), a luthier I've gone to in the past who is top tier with many celebrity clients and works out of a major city charges about $125/hr (itemized bill). He's worth every penny when it's a job that goes beyond the basic stuff, like fixing damaged wood or worn frets on a vintage instrument. Another guy who does great basic setups, tweaks, and fret leveling charges lower rates to accomodate working musicians and charges ~$60/hr. I think these should be the lower and higher extremes (and the cheaper guy could easily charge more but chooses not to)

Edit: should note that both guys are indeed instrument builders as well as techs, this is just their given hourly rate for repair work...
 
#30
I ran a one man bike and ski repair business for several years. The factors that determined what I needed to charge were my rent and utilities, cost of parts and supplies in stock, tools and personal wage required. Add to that the work you can't bill anyone directly for like book keeping and answering the phone (which is more time consuming than you might suspect). The situation will be similar for any one man shop including a bass builder. For him to pay himself $40/hr he'd have to bill his services at around $75/hr. Add medical insurance to that and $100/hr seems realistic to me.
 
#32
Munjibunga said:
See? That's part of the problem with many small business owners, some luthiers included. If you don't have a handle on your labor costs (including your own) you don't have a handle on your business. How can you figure out what the correct price is for your instrument if you don't know how much labor you have in it?
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Guess. Or base their price on their competition. IME that's what most of them do.

I still remember meeting a relatively new luthier back in the 90's who thought his work was on par with Mike Tobias so he priced his instruments pretty close to Mike's prices. I explained to him that Mike's pricing didn't happen overnight and it was based on more than just the item being sold. By that time Mike was at the top of the heap among builders, with a proven track record and resale values. That counts.

My guess is most luthiers would love to clear $50/hr and at $100/hr, finishing the year over $200k in the black would be a great year.
 
#35
Brad Johnson said:
Guess. Or base their price on their competition. IME that's what most of them do.

I still remember meeting a relatively new luthier back in the 90's who thought his work was on par with Mike Tobias so he priced his instruments pretty close to Mike's prices. I explained to him that Mike's pricing didn't happen overnight and it was based on more than just the item being sold. By that time Mike was at the top of the heap among builders, with a proven track record and resale values. That counts.

Miy guess is most luthiers would love to clear $50/hr and at $100/hr, finishing the year over $200k in the black would be a great year.
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Seems realistic to me.
 
#36
hdracer said:
$50-100 ?????

The guy that fixes your car or pluming makes that much or more and they get benefits.
Click to expand...

Not quite.....auto techs work against a flat rate. If they can beat the flat rate, their hourly wage increase, if they take more time than quoted they loose money, right on time they break even. Most good auto guys at a profitable dealership make $30'ish per hour....again they're always chasing a flat rate.

Plumbers is a non-union vs union thing.....if he's union, he's making journeyman or master pay set by his local. If he's non union, he is bidding by the job.....prob a more similar situation to what a full time luthier is doing, bidding a job. The more time he spends, the less money he makes...the the less time, the more money cause now he can get to job #2 that much quicker.

I am an Aircraft Mechanic by trade...and I agree with what has been said previously....skilled craftsmen (in any trade) are things of the past and vastly under paid for what we do. In my profession, guys can make as little starting out at $10 p/h all the way up to $50 p/h. UPS, FEDEX, and SWA are the three top paying gigs in the Aviation Maintenance world. I top out around $45p/h....and yes, we are union....for better or worse.

As far as luthier is concerned, I think pay would have to be somewhat contingent on your lifestyle and location. Does your lifestyle and geographical location allow you to live comfortably on $50-$60K a year? Do you need more? I dunno? For me, I couldn't put a price per hour on doing something I love (I am not a builder but would love to be someday). I can put a price per hour on working for XYZ company while doing something I need to do to get by and feed my family. So I think as a luthier you need to look it at like, how much do I need to make per year? Then, how many basses will take per year to reach that goal? I would much rather put in 60-80 hours per week working for myself doing something I love than working for the man at 40 hours doing something I would rather not be doing...even if at the end of the year it equated to the same amount of money.

The only caveat is benefits....working for the man, its part of your compensation package....working for yourself, they are not.
 
#37
If more people had a clue what's involved in doing this kind of work there'd probably be far less crap thrown at them. Unfortunately many simply aren't curious enough to try and gain even a cursory understanding of what it takes to run a successful business. Worse, some builders are in the same boat.
 
#38
g4string said:
Not quite.....auto techs work against a flat rate. If they can beat the flat rate, their hourly wage increase, if they take more time than quoted they loose money, right on time they break even. Most good auto guys at a profitable dealership make $30'ish per hour....again they're always chasing a flat rate.

Plumbers is a non-union vs union thing.....if he's union, he's making journeyman or master pay set by his local. If he's non union, he is bidding by the job.....prob a more similar situation to what a full time luthier is doing, bidding a job. The more time he spends, the less money he makes...the the less time, the more money cause now he can get to job #2 that much quicker.

I am an Aircraft Mechanic by trade...and I agree with what has been said previously....skilled craftsmen (in any trade) are things of the past and vastly under paid for what we do. In my profession, guys can make as little starting out at $10 p/h all the way up to $50 p/h. UPS, FEDEX, and SWA are the three top paying gigs in the Aviation Maintenance world. I top out around $45p/h....and yes, we are union....for better or worse.

As far as luthier is concerned, I think pay would have to be somewhat contingent on your lifestyle and location. Does your lifestyle and geographical location allow you to live comfortably on $50-$60K a year? Do you need more? I dunno? For me, I couldn't put a price per hour on doing something I love (I am not a builder but would love to be someday). I can put a price per hour on working for XYZ company while doing something I need to do to get by and feed my family. So I think as a luthier you need to look it at like, how much do I need to make per year? Then, how many basses will take per year to reach that goal? I would much rather put in 60-80 hours per week working for myself doing something I love than working for the man at 40 hours doing something I would rather not be doing...even if at the end of the year it equated to the same amount of money.

The only caveat is benefits....working for the man, its part of your compensation package....working for yourself, they are not.
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Well said.

The other catch with luthiery is if orders aren't there, you don't get paid... and you likely won't be able to fill even a 40 hour week with billable work. Especially in this economy.
 
#39
Luke19Boarder said:
At 100$/hr ... wouldn't that make a custom-built bass cost in the area of $10,000?
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That is where Does make and Should make is the difference. There are builders that get that much and the price of their basses reflect that.

There are a lot of great builders that don't make near that.
For a small business builder to net $100,000 he is lucky to be making $30-40 a hour net
 
#40
Brad Johnson said:
If more people had a clue what's involved in doing this kind of work there'd probably be far less crap thrown at them. Unfortunately many simply aren't curious enough to try and gain even a cursory understanding of what it takes to run a successful business. Worse, some builders are in the same boat.
Click to expand...

I agree, some builders are great at what they do but horrible business owners. Some are great biz owners but lackluster builders. Part of the dilemma is whether or not you wanna do you straight 8, punch out, caller' a day, and go home. Or do you wanna ALWAYS be dealing with YOUR work. I like punching out and calling'er a day after my 8. I can come home, forget about my job, and enjoy my family with no stress about making sure I have enough $$ coming in.
 

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