how to fill the hole left by a soloing guitarist

[scottfeldstein]

This is a far more interesting thread than I anticipated. Lots of great ideas and observations.

I'm particularly excited about going up an octave for the solo and coming back down when it's over. That might not "cover" a hole, but might avoid a "hole sound" altogether.

 

[Ric5]

I've noticed that Jack Bruce would play the same line up an octave.

With a 5 string bass you can also go down lower to fill in the absence of chords.

 

[jaywa]

In my trio, I get the guitarist to play solos that incorporate chords, even if they're only doublestops or triples, rather than single note stuff.

This. Billy Gibbons is an all-time master of this style. Stevie Ray Vaughn did it pretty well, too.

Bass pedals have worked for bands in the past, too.

 

[HugeInJapan]

Bass chords.... If the solo isn't over a complicated bass line I will just switch to playing the power chords the guitar was playing. Sometimes you might have to move the root up an octave to keep from sounding too muddy tho.

 

[Qlanq]

Metal band I played with, real shredding guitar player, I played chords an octave up if I could and used a set of bass pedals through a chorus pedal. My god we were loud. And we told the drummer to play harder.

 

[scottfeldstein]

The song I'm thinking of in particular has a pumping, walky bass line through the chorus of the song. That's the same passage the guitarist uses for a solo. He typically would play the four (loud, distorted) chords of my line: A, D, G and C. But when he goes in for his solo, even my pretty hard-driving line starts to sound a little thin to me.

If I had a fuzz pedal, I'd try it. I don't have one. I don't typically care for that sound.

if I had an octaver, i'd try playing the riff an octave up and letting the pedal have my usual octave.

Some have suggested just doing that anyway, without the pedal. Extremely intriguing.

Others have suggested a variety of more subtle techniques such as playing less staccato, letting notes ring out more, adjusting volume up, playing more/playing less... all of which are sound ideas to try.

maybe I could get the drummer to clang 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4 on the bell of his ride cymbal or something. That might help as much as anything I might do.

 

[lowfreq33]

A little overdrive definitely helps with this, particularly one with a clean blend. I use an Akai Unibass and a Way Huge Pork Loin. Typically you'd want to set the distortion side so that it has a similar tone to the guitarists rhythm sound and keep the clean side at the same volume as normal. This way it create the illusion of a 2nd guitar, or at least occupies a similar frequency range.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Yeah, I totally hear what you're saying. I buy that. Maybe I really should consider a proper distortion pedal. Pork Loin or maybe an El Grande Bass Fuzz. Something to kick on to copy the sonic signature of the guitar player when he's ... absent.

I already run a SansAmp bass driver DI full-time, but I have it set for the subtlest of sizzles--not distortion or fuzz.

 

[KCLRbass]

In situations where my band is/was struggling to support soloists in effectively, sometimes we need to re-think the entire solo section. If, when a solo starts, the energy gets sapped out of the music (unintentionally, that is), sometimes it's best to spend some time writing new parts (riffs, changes, shots, dynamics, etc., etc.) that help take the solo in a more exciting direction. A bit of extra attention and writing has really helped out in some cases.

 

[scottfeldstein]

I'm now really interested in three options for this particular song, all based on comments from here:

a) try playing an octave higher

b) try some fuzz

c) see if I can get the drummer to make more noise in the guitarists range (why's it all gotta be on me?)

 

[collins81]

Have you ever thought of just telling the guitarist to not solo?

I like to treat a solo section as a chance for the rythm section to open up the sonic avenues while the guitarist does his thing. I learned on a 5 string, so having the lower B string gives me the extra notes to use to fill space. 4 strings are a little akward for me for some reason

I would love to incorporate effects like an octiver, chorus, and an overdrive pedal. I currently own none of the above so I rely on expanding the notes I play, syncopations I use and more importantly I try to do it tastefully to support the guitard can get the lime light he thinks he deserves.

 

[Toastfuzz]

I would love to incorporate effects like an octiver, chorus, and an overdrive pedal. I currently own none of the above so I rely on expanding the notes I play, syncopations I use and more importantly I try to do it tastefully to support the guitard can get the lime light he thinks he deserves.

Probably better off man... I have a bunch of effects but they were bought mostly as toys for my own enjoyment (except the VT Bass and tuner) and I just incorporate them into bands wherever its a good fit, but I'd say if you can achieve your goals with a clean tone, do it. Then when it needs kicked up a notch throw an effect in there.

Scott, regarding an octaver, I have one but rarely use it. Actually playing an octave up or down (clean) doesnt so much as fill the space as it just mixes things up, so you dont need to fill the space. Most non-musician people think you're playing "dueling solos" just cuz both you and the guitarist are playing high up on then neck and it sounds different to their ears.

 

[mjcantor]

In my alt-rock band, I kick in either my MXR Bass Octave Deluxe and play the line up the octave on the fretboard, or my Digitech Whammy on the -Oct/+Oct or +4th/+5th setting. From there I run either my usual Ashdown Hyperdrive, which only applies the overdrive to the mid frequencies, blended with the clean signal (possibly with my Digitech Bad Monkey set to be a clean boost), or if I want to go all out, I'll kick on the Bass Big Muff in blend mode. I always have a dry DI with the only effect hitting it being the BOD, and I run the mic'd amp signal from the dry out of my Sansamp Bass Driver DI. The wet signal from the BDDI goes straight into the board for MORE DIRT.

 

[Floridabwoy]

I some times play busier, play a chordal part or add harmonics.

This.

 

[Audiophage]

Why does the guitar player have to be taking up all that space when they're not soloing in the first place?

 

[hail]

Perhaps it's not the optimal solution in any situation, but since I haven't seen it mentioned, a good loop pedal seems like it'd help a lot as long as you're careful not to muddy the mix. Especially if the main backing line is from the chorus, you can record it earlier in the song and hit 'play' so you're free to play up and octave, on fifths, or whatever you need to do.

Granted, it's about the same solution as an octaver/pitch shifter, but a bit more interesting if you're handy with it

 

[collins81]

Probably better off man... I have a bunch of effects but they were bought mostly as toys for my own enjoyment (except the VT Bass and tuner) and I just incorporate them into bands wherever its a good fit, but I'd say if you can achieve your goals with a clean tone, do it. Then when it needs kicked up a notch throw an effect in there.

I think its more due to not having the patience to sit and dial in a setting. The only one(s) I really want to get is an octiver and synth. I would like to have the option to kick in a synth sound during a dance song, or a sub octive sound for the fun of it where I deem it necessary, even if its in a country song! :scowl:

 

[scottfeldstein]

Why does the guitar player have to be taking up all that space when they're not soloing in the first place?

You know, that's a really good point.

This particular guitarist, bless his oblivious soul, is not only way louder than he needs to be but also EQs himself with lots more bass than is good and necessary. He does play using a distorted rock sound, but it's not the sweet, upper harmonic distortion provided by commercial pedals. it's the grungy, unrefined sound provided by cranking the input gain on a tube amp (which is exactly what he does). Me, I'd have him using a pedal and EQing himself mid-heavy for a smoother tone.

And one that didn't take up so much of the spectrum.

Which is why, after all, there's a "hole" in the first place when he abandons his chords.

Good, good point.

 

[Toastfuzz]

You know, that's a really good point.

This particular guitarist, bless his oblivious soul, is not only way louder than he needs to be but also EQs himself with lots more bass than is good and necessary. He does play using a distorted rock sound, but it's not the sweet, upper harmonic distortion provided by commercial pedals. it's the grungy, unrefined sound provided by cranking the input gain on a tube amp (which is exactly what he does). Me, I'd have him using a pedal and EQing himself mid-heavy for a smoother tone.

And one that didn't take up so much of the spectrum.

Which is why, after all, there's a "hole" in the first place when he abandons his chords.

Good, good point.

Yes!! You are right where I was in my last band!! 2 overpowering guitarists who didnt understand the concept of "practice volume." We'd end a song and the drummer would say "hey guys, I cant hear my drums. I think we need to turn down."

 

[scottfeldstein]

Things have gotten slightly better. We got a quieter drummer, for one thing. I went from having to play through an 810 (yes, at rehearsal!) to a 410. Plus, I convinced the guitarist to put his amp up on something to get it off the ground and closer to his own ear. I think that helped a lot. He's still got a wicked-bad EQ going, though. When he hits a natural D chord it sounds like Godzilla.