TL;DR Much drama and issues with a band member, seeking advice on how to effectively move on without him 
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How to fire a guy who, without a doubt, will not take it well?
- Thread starter funkcicle
- Start date
Well, I gather that you feel this guy is a douche-bag 
However, I would not bring that into the discussion, nor any other personal faults of his.
I would just calmly say that while he's been away the band has evolved, and you have collectively decided that his participation is no longer in line with what the band needs.
Do it now, before he's moved back. The way I see it there's no way this can go down amicably because he doesn't want that. From then on do not discuss band matters with him. Let him expose himself as best he sees fit on social media. Do not engage in arguments, just ignore him. And don't let him "jam" with you. Chances are he'll just take that as confirmation he's back in.
However, I would not bring that into the discussion, nor any other personal faults of his.
I would just calmly say that while he's been away the band has evolved, and you have collectively decided that his participation is no longer in line with what the band needs.
Do it now, before he's moved back. The way I see it there's no way this can go down amicably because he doesn't want that. From then on do not discuss band matters with him. Let him expose himself as best he sees fit on social media. Do not engage in arguments, just ignore him. And don't let him "jam" with you. Chances are he'll just take that as confirmation he's back in.
There's probably no easy, pleasant way. How good are you at being a bigger douchebag?
Considering you're doing psychedelic rock, I'd go with something utterly alien to the value system of the genre, like "we think this band will be more commercially viable, marketable and profitable without you". Maybe even add that you were gonna spend the extra kickstarter funds on some acapellas from name rappers to get some mainstream attention. Let him have the moral high ground and make him want nothing to do with you. At least convincing him you're "pure evil" (by the standards of rock music) should keep the process from dragging out.
Considering you're doing psychedelic rock, I'd go with something utterly alien to the value system of the genre, like "we think this band will be more commercially viable, marketable and profitable without you". Maybe even add that you were gonna spend the extra kickstarter funds on some acapellas from name rappers to get some mainstream attention. Let him have the moral high ground and make him want nothing to do with you. At least convincing him you're "pure evil" (by the standards of rock music) should keep the process from dragging out.
I think that was the longest post I have ever read all the way through. No scimming, I promise.
I would be blunt. Tell him he's not a good fit for the rest of the band, and that the band is equally not a fit for him. Don't be demeaning, but present it in such a way to where he floats away on his own ego. Twist the message so he percieves that you guys want to move in a different direction and that he wouldn't be happy there. Make him feel like you are doing him a favor by releasing him of his "obligations" to your band so he can go a form his own band that will compliment his "abilities" better. After all, being part of a band 200 miles away is an incredible burdon for someone of his "level".
If he get's pissed off anyway, just stick to your guns. Don't let him drag you into an argument. That will only fuel the fire. Remain calm and firm, but let him save face. As bad as you will won't to call him out on being such a turd, if you let him save face it will soothe his anger to some degree. It's hard to do when you want to reach out and slap a fool, but try not to disrespect him.
Lastly, make sure you have the rest of the band behind you. 100% those guys have to be on your team. No peace makers in between. The band versus the D-bag. If anyone acts as if they are on the fence, he will single them out and use them as leverage to get his way. I would hold a meeting with them face to face and make damn certain they are on the same page as you. If all of you agree fully this guy needs to part ways, then do it quick. Like pulling off a band aid. Don't draw it out over emails, gestures, hints and cold shoulders. Just call him up and fire him. Make sure the other members know to either ignore his rebounding calls, or to take the same stance as you. It might be a good idea to call him when everyone is together. That way he can't corner someone into playing ignorant.
Best wishes. Situation sucks. I know, I've been in similar.
I would be blunt. Tell him he's not a good fit for the rest of the band, and that the band is equally not a fit for him. Don't be demeaning, but present it in such a way to where he floats away on his own ego. Twist the message so he percieves that you guys want to move in a different direction and that he wouldn't be happy there. Make him feel like you are doing him a favor by releasing him of his "obligations" to your band so he can go a form his own band that will compliment his "abilities" better. After all, being part of a band 200 miles away is an incredible burdon for someone of his "level".
If he get's pissed off anyway, just stick to your guns. Don't let him drag you into an argument. That will only fuel the fire. Remain calm and firm, but let him save face. As bad as you will won't to call him out on being such a turd, if you let him save face it will soothe his anger to some degree. It's hard to do when you want to reach out and slap a fool, but try not to disrespect him.
Lastly, make sure you have the rest of the band behind you. 100% those guys have to be on your team. No peace makers in between. The band versus the D-bag. If anyone acts as if they are on the fence, he will single them out and use them as leverage to get his way. I would hold a meeting with them face to face and make damn certain they are on the same page as you. If all of you agree fully this guy needs to part ways, then do it quick. Like pulling off a band aid. Don't draw it out over emails, gestures, hints and cold shoulders. Just call him up and fire him. Make sure the other members know to either ignore his rebounding calls, or to take the same stance as you. It might be a good idea to call him when everyone is together. That way he can't corner someone into playing ignorant.
Best wishes. Situation sucks. I know, I've been in similar.
Just fire the guy and say that he doesn't fit with the band anymore in any way.
The only thing I would think about from your perspective is the money side of the album, etc. Get that part bullet-proof and use it as a carrot for him, saying that even if he does nothing, he will get x amount from sales, etc. Also ensure that you are prepared to counter all the crap that he will end up spewing all over the place or that you're prepared to accept the fall out (loss of fans, etc). Who owns the name?
The only thing I would think about from your perspective is the money side of the album, etc. Get that part bullet-proof and use it as a carrot for him, saying that even if he does nothing, he will get x amount from sales, etc. Also ensure that you are prepared to counter all the crap that he will end up spewing all over the place or that you're prepared to accept the fall out (loss of fans, etc). Who owns the name?
Yeap. There's always one.
Just visited your kickstarter page and the video pitch was awesome! I think you did a great job with it. You have a great thing going with your band. You can't let this guy bring it all down and ruin it. Any 37 y/o man who solicits money from his mom is a loser in my book. You're absolutely right in cutting the dead weight. Just like you came in and filled the void, another guitarist can fill his.
You should have done this a long time ago, when he moved away. There was no easy way back then, and there's no easy way now.
Just tell him (with the rest of the band having your back of course). Be blunt. Tell him in a way that leaves no room for interpretation.
I've dealt with people like that. Cold, hard facts are the only way they will get it.
Just tell him (with the rest of the band having your back of course). Be blunt. Tell him in a way that leaves no room for interpretation.
I've dealt with people like that. Cold, hard facts are the only way they will get it.
In light of the above, he is out and there is no reason to try and be too nice about it. He should have been properly out a long time ago, but I know how complex these things can seem when you're in the middle of it. I think it is essential to make him understand that all of his professional affiliation with the band is completely over, so that he doesn't have any motivation for further sneaky douchebaggery. Making it as abundantly clear as possible that you don't want him to have anything to do with the band will hopefully make him understand that further deliberate sabotage is pointless, so that he can move on to terrorize some other band.
Martin
I'm going to agree with the other posts. But let me tell you this: a lot of this is your fault for not addressing this sooner. When the guy moved out of town, yall seemed to think that was the end of it and yall were off the hook. Which is fine but you cant continue to involve him in band stuff. Just call him up and fire him. Whatever he does in reaction is immaterial. If he does something that offends you then do whatever you would normally do with anybody else. The important thing is that he understands that its over.
This combined with the completely unacceptable attitude towards practically everybody (his mom, girlfrinds and bandmates), should make it painfully obvious that he is pretty toxic to be around. I know that he probably wont take your rejection positively, but compared to keeping up with lengthy tormentation it go for a clean "we all want you out" kind of break. All band breakups are messy and unpleasant (i have experienced a clinically psychotic drummer throwing himself out and blaming us), but when someone won't change (eg being a chronic douchebag), you have to make a clean break.
To quote one of my day-job colleages on your side of the atlantic "how's that working for ya" (in the midwestern tone)
If you and the others are all in agreement that you want him gone, then just fire him. Meet him somewhere, say goodbye and move on. Just walk out the back, Jack.
However and this won't be popular, he is a founding member and you are not. In his mind he may feel aggrieved.
However and this won't be popular, he is a founding member and you are not. In his mind he may feel aggrieved.
At this point I think the advice about giving him an incentive to stay out of the way might be good. I would also "Publicly" separate the band from him, in a very pleasant, "Amicable", but permanent way. I wouldn't worry about what he thinks of it, worry about covering your *** so he is not able to screw you over after the fact.
IMO, you're in too deep with this project to just fire him. Sure, if it was a small-time band with no profile and no future, just fire him. But you have something to lose here.
Unfortunately, he might legally be entitled to some type of dissolution settlement. You would probably legally be considered a de facto partnership with each member owning an equal share of the "company." And he seems like the type who might seek legal action to get his share; you said yourself he won't take this well.
It appears that the band has no documented agreement on performance expectations or exit procedures. What if his mom is willing to bankroll a suit? Do you want to deal with that on top of everything else? You need to talk to an attorney. Hopefully you can structure some type of agreement that makes him go away and prevents any future legal recourse against you.
No one should get this far into a band without some type of business or partnership legal agreement. I would never enter into even a half-way serious business relationship without one. All the while that you're out spending your time and money to advance the band, he probably owns an equal share of the result. What if he can show that your recording studio was funded with band money and band capital and was intended for the use of the band (as you say it is)? Are you ready to hand over an equal share of your studio?
You CAN force him out if a majority of you want it. But do it formally and in a way that minimizes your chances for loss. Believe me, I've been there in another business activity and even with a formal partnership agreement and a legally executed dissolution agreement, I was still entangled in costly legal procedures and lost a suit that cost me over 10 grand.
Don't take this too lightly. You need to talk to an attorney.
Good luck.
Unfortunately, he might legally be entitled to some type of dissolution settlement. You would probably legally be considered a de facto partnership with each member owning an equal share of the "company." And he seems like the type who might seek legal action to get his share; you said yourself he won't take this well.
It appears that the band has no documented agreement on performance expectations or exit procedures. What if his mom is willing to bankroll a suit? Do you want to deal with that on top of everything else? You need to talk to an attorney. Hopefully you can structure some type of agreement that makes him go away and prevents any future legal recourse against you.
No one should get this far into a band without some type of business or partnership legal agreement. I would never enter into even a half-way serious business relationship without one. All the while that you're out spending your time and money to advance the band, he probably owns an equal share of the result. What if he can show that your recording studio was funded with band money and band capital and was intended for the use of the band (as you say it is)? Are you ready to hand over an equal share of your studio?
You CAN force him out if a majority of you want it. But do it formally and in a way that minimizes your chances for loss. Believe me, I've been there in another business activity and even with a formal partnership agreement and a legally executed dissolution agreement, I was still entangled in costly legal procedures and lost a suit that cost me over 10 grand.
Don't take this too lightly. You need to talk to an attorney.
Good luck.
Wow, just wow.
1) 37 year old
2) Slaps girlfriend around and degrades her
3) Disrespects mom
4) 37 year old
5) Tries to derail interview
6) No time for his daughter
7) Volume knob broken (not particularly unusual)
8) He's 37? Really?
While there are two sides to every story, I'm going to go out on a limb here by saying that this guy is a turd.........with corn! What a mess. I just love people that are miserable in life and torture everyone around them.
As difficult as it is to "make it" in the industry, for lack of a better term, I can't imagine embracing this additional burden.
If the other band members are pouring their heart and soul in to this project like you are, then they too should feel like they have something to lose. OTOH, if they are more of a puff, puff, pass......go along to get along group, you need an exit strategy to preserve your sanity.
It's stuff like this that pushes people to freak out, sell all their gear, and take up basket weaving.
Here's hoping that things resolve themselves in an adult like manner and that you don't get taken out by shrapnel.
1) 37 year old
2) Slaps girlfriend around and degrades her
3) Disrespects mom
4) 37 year old
5) Tries to derail interview
6) No time for his daughter
7) Volume knob broken (not particularly unusual)
8) He's 37? Really?
While there are two sides to every story, I'm going to go out on a limb here by saying that this guy is a turd.........with corn! What a mess. I just love people that are miserable in life and torture everyone around them.
As difficult as it is to "make it" in the industry, for lack of a better term, I can't imagine embracing this additional burden.
If the other band members are pouring their heart and soul in to this project like you are, then they too should feel like they have something to lose. OTOH, if they are more of a puff, puff, pass......go along to get along group, you need an exit strategy to preserve your sanity.
It's stuff like this that pushes people to freak out, sell all their gear, and take up basket weaving.
Here's hoping that things resolve themselves in an adult like manner and that you don't get taken out by shrapnel.
I would not do it in writing...it will give him ammo for the inevitable smear campaign
like someone else said...you must do this with the entire band there and in lockstep, and you need a tag team partner that's as sick of him as you are.
make sure you use him slapping the girlfriend as one of your major reasons...no way he can spin that to make him a victim.
like someone else said...you must do this with the entire band there and in lockstep, and you need a tag team partner that's as sick of him as you are.
make sure you use him slapping the girlfriend as one of your major reasons...no way he can spin that to make him a victim.
