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How to fire a guy who, without a doubt, will not take it well?

#42
Easy- he quit the band. Now make sure he stays "quit". Don't let him back in. He'll go all drama queen on you, but you're not the first band this has happened to. The history of rock is littered with the carcasses of these self defeating idiots. Ignore him, don't buy into his games, and keep a lawyer handy for when he (and he will) steps over the line into actionable territory. Suggest, when he starts a smear campaign again, have the attorney send him a cease and desist letter. Also, if you have not done so, copyright the band's name and form a business entity.
 
#44
Anyone who is (a) abusive to two different women on two separate occasions as I have read, (b) what appears to be a defrauding of his mother and (c) deliberately attempted to undermine any progress you tried to make after he left town will not comprehend any touchy, feely "We've decided to move in another direction" speech.

He is a bully. A subversive, self-centred narcissist who believes that even though he has been out of the picture for a period of time he deserves the lion's share of the attention, credit, fame and ultimately money.

Load both barrels and let him have it. He's out. You included him in the first round out of respect for his limited contributions at that time and THAT'S IT. If any money comes from that recording he will be given his share of the royalties accordingly and not a penny more. You have moved on and he is no longer a welcomed member of the band. If he continues any attempt to slander or hinder the progress of the band you will take legal action. Period. If he shows up to any of your performances he is to act appropriately or face removal. Period. He is never to open a guitar case in your presence again. Period.

I have one of these d-bags in my past. There is no reasoning with him. There is no conversation. He showed up at a party once with our old drummer where my current band was playing and expected me to drop everything and have a full blown reunion with him. He even took pictures and posted them on facebook calling it such. I cannot even begin to tell you the long list of ridiculous behaviour he has displayed over the years. I no longer speak to him even though I live blocks from his house.
 
#45
Plays_For_Dog said:
I would be blunt. Tell him he's not a good fit for the rest of the band, and that the band is equally not a fit for him. Don't be demeaning, but present it in such a way to where he floats away on his own ego. Twist the message so he percieves that you guys want to move in a different direction and that he wouldn't be happy there. Make him feel like you are doing him a favor by releasing him of his "obligations" to your band so he can go a form his own band that will compliment his "abilities" better. After all, being part of a band 200 miles away is an incredible burdon for someone of his "level".
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I have to admit, I really like all of the suggestions that we don't make it personal. I can honestly say that the idea had not occurred to me as I'd been dwelling more on the negative side of the situation. In previous attempts to distance ourselves from him our other guitarist attempted to stroke his ego by telling him that he gets to be "the Brian Wilson" or "the Syd Barrett" of the band (since we had already decided that we were unwilling to perform with him, but not ruled out recording him as a 'hired gun', so to speak). In the instance of his attempt to sabotage the radio show, this worked at first and he was supportive... for about a day. The day of the show is when he freaked out and tried to get it canceled.

As for regrouping under a different name (this is something we had talked about in the past, but moved on from), I'm hoping to avoid this as we'd like to treat this project more as a "brand" than a "band" from here on out (think "Masters of Reality" or "Tangerine Dream". Basically a vehicle for recording projects, and not a static 'performance ensemble'). I have two more projects lined up (a film soundtrack for a franchise that is literally a household name, and a commission project of 12 contemporary cover songs in the style of 'space-rock'). These are personal projects that don't have to be associated with this band, but by doing so I can create a stronger brand than either of these projects or the band could create independently. Simply put, I'm *willing* to give these projects to the band, but as another poster so eloquently put it, the band needs to lose its dead weight first.

Like I said, the optimist in me hopes for an amicable parting of ways. He can only benefit from letting us go down the path we've started to chart, as he would potentially profit from sales on the albums he took part in and he could retain a positive association with the band. Like I said- I don't want to dick him over: If he is due anything for the contributions he's made, I want him to have it. Call me crazy, but I would even be willing to include him, at my discretion, in future recording projects, as long as it was established that [the band] was not an 'entity' that included him. It is worth stressing that all of the progress we made in the 8 odd months since he "left" has only been possible because he was out of the picture. Had he still been in town and interested in exerting any level of creative control or giving any input whatsoever to the engineering process, I would have simply devoted my studio resources to one of my other projects.

:smug:
 
#46
Really. Get the other guys together with him and say that it's not working out and this is where we part ways. Post on your site that you and he will be working on different projects and thank him for all the good years. You are not in an easy spot but, he has given you more reason than you need to move on. It's not always easy to deal with people in person. I find that the more everyone communicates via texting, the less they are able to handle one on one issues. Good luck.
 
#49
ibateur said:
You should consider dissolution of the band. You could end up in a GnR situation though where he has sole rights to the name and thus all the finances. If you don't have a contract covering that, that's no good for you at all.

Then reform the band without him and say something like "from the ashes of Silver Machine, rises a new..." type of thing.
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That's what I was thinking... everybody quits the band and reforms under a different moniker leaving his keister on the curb. It would seem since he started the band, he may have a case to sue you for "all his hard work" in the future.

jive1 said:
The big mistake was using his image and tracks while you wanted to move on without him. In hindsight, you should have not used his tracks at all, but just re-recorded them with the good guitar player. You never should have used his image on Kickstarter, especially if you were planning on canning him. By doing that, you also misled your contributors. He may be a d-bag, but d-bags can still have friends.

At this point, regardless of how big of a jerk he is, you still need to give him his due. You didn't have to use his stuff, but did and you owe him something.
- If he wrote any of the material, you can buy it from him. He has the choice to not sell it, which means you need to stop using it.
- He gets a split of the proceeds from sales from the recordings that have his studio recorded tracks on them.
- As a founding member, you'll need to figure out what was owned jointly and disperse with stuff such as the band-name, logo, etc. and figure out a way to make it work.

But to really take the high road in this, you need to give the guy his fair share. And in the future, if you don't want to pay or share with a D-bag, don't work with one.
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As usual, Jive is spot on.
 
#51
He should be invited to face the entire band. You and the others should make clear that he doesn't fit in anymore, due to his attitude and playing. You opened a small music studio, where a lot of work is being done. I assume you are the owner of it. This gives you the right to not allow him there. Some assistance from a lawyer could be helpful.
 
#52
Accoriding to you posts - getting this guy out of the band is not up for debate, nor the subject of negotiation; remember this! Take the high road at every opportunity here, make the situation right as you've said but you cannot leave the door open for anything further. I do like the idea of using an attorney, a few bucks and a couple hours of consulting might go a long way. If not, be united as a group and tell him what is going to happen; you're not 'asking' him to leave. Good luck!
 
#53
ibateur said:
He's a douche, plays guitar terribly and yet... Come on man, make up your mind.
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What he said. Seriously. You know the d-bag doesn't understand common sense, and every new interaction/collaboration with the guy (no matter how limited) is only going to bring trouble.

Sever all ties, completely and definitely...BEFORE he moves back to town. You already stated that he sucks on guitar anyway...why, oh why, would you keep him around? Do you ENJOY drama?
 
#55
ChrisB2 said:
What if he can show that your recording studio was funded with band money and band capital and was intended for the use of the band (as you say it is)? Are you ready to hand over an equal share of your studio?
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Fortunately that's not the case. Part of my motivation for opening the studio was to have something other than the Band Name under which to work on the Band's products(while also benefiting my other projects, not at the expense of this one) I have funded it completely myself with savings and the bit of work I've been able to get from other bands who have used my services. Had I been charging my going rate (which is CHEAP), the band would owe me somewhere in the range of $15,000k. Even if we just looked at my personal investment into this project we're in the same ball park... but again, that's why I opened the studio, and didn't buy the equipment 'for the band'.

We're also fortunate that, other than the recordings, the band has no joint property. I own all of the recording equipment, other guitarist and drummer own all of the lights and PA equipment, we all own our own personal gear, and 2 of us drive vans.

So I have another question for you guys: how might we go about assigning a value to his contributions on this album? Do we tabulate his investment (~12 hours, vs ~100 from the drummer, and 500+ from me and the other guitarist. $0 vs $xx,xxx)? A calculation of his percentage of writing credits on the album? A share proportionate with the percentage of support he drummed up for the Kickstarter campaign? Some combination of all of these? Further, if we mutually decide on a percentage of owner ship, is it legitimate to pay him off with that % of the initial pressing of the album? (This is how we handled the last album, to everybody's content including the former bassist) I'm not looking for a definitive answer, just some suggestions to jog my thinking.

and like I said, I want him to be treated fairly, but I want the severance to be definitive. :)
 
#56
Frank77 said:
Sever all ties, completely and definitely...BEFORE he moves back to town. You already stated that he sucks on guitar anyway...why, oh why, would you keep him around? Do you ENJOY drama?
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Good point, in retrospect I don't know why I put that line in there, but it's possible that I'm forgiving to a fault (you know what they say about us Canadians- so polite and all ;) ) but you're right. I've never made the decision to include him in something and not regretted it afterward, I motion to strike that statement from my record:)
 
#57
Lots of folks saying to do this in person, but if the guy lives out of town don't ask him to come to a band meeting in your town and then fire him. I know I'd be pissed about driving for hours to attend a meeting and then found out I was getting the axe. Might as well send me a text and save me the gas money.

Perhaps the best way to indicate how serious and final this is to him would be for you and the rest of the band to go to HIS town for the meeting.
 
#59
buy him out, tell him you are going to give him credit for the 200 bux his mom was going to donate.

make sure you all have tazers when you do it....OR


throw him a blanket party like they did for Private Pyle in Full Metal Jacket...
 
#60
Factor88 said:
Lots of folks saying to do this in person, but if the guy lives out of town don't ask him to come to a band meeting in your town and then fire him. I know I'd be pissed about driving for hours to attend a meeting and then found out I was getting the axe. Might as well send me a text and save me the gas money.

Perhaps the best way to indicate how serious and final this is to him would be for you and the rest of the band to go to HIS town for the meeting.
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I'm with you on this. He has been fishing on Facebook for couches on which to crash while he comes into town to look for a room/apartment for next month. On the one hand he'll "be in town already", but on the other hand if his motivation to come back here has to do with this band I almost feel he should know before he makes a house-hunting trip. The other issue is that the drummer is in California until Thursday night(hence not meeting until Friday), but I suspect D-B might already be in town by then.
 

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