how to play fast jaco-style repeated 16th notes

[lawjcrg]

All: first time posting here on a technical issue.
I am trying to nail down a passage from Jaco's solo in Port of Entry, where he plays fast 16th note repeated C's for several measures. His attack and fullness of tone is very consistent on each 16th note. He is also playing these at around 168 bps!
I can do these at 140 bps and maybe a little faster. But getting into 150 and above, it is VERY inconsistent and uneven. I am examining my right hand position and have questions about how any of you, who can pull this off, position your right hand and your picking fingers. I do try to play with a light touch, but I feel that if it's too light, the tone is very anemic, and not like how Jaco's 16th's sound. When trying to play fast repeated notes I try to make sure the finger that hits the string almost bounces off or rebounds off the string underneath it. I also try to have the picking finger hit the bridge pickup a little. All of these help my fingers have a bit of a rebound to get it back into playing position quicker (sort of like a drummer's sticks)
Still, I can't pull this off yet. For those of you who can, what part of your finger/finger pad hits the strings when playing this fast? The tip?The pad? If I can, I'll take a video of my right hand to show the various questions I have. For now, I'm hoping I've sufficiently described the question and the issues I have to elicit some helpful comments. It may be the case that, despite all my efforts, I'll never be able to pull this off as fast and cleanly as I'd like. So be it. But before I resign myself to this, I'd like to make sure I'm doing everything possible to do it. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[InternetAlias]

Practice slowly. If you can get it right slowly after a lot of time and practice you will gain speed. Never forget: Speed is the result of accuracy! Thus, it's apparent you need to practice slower, sometimes it can take a lot of time until you can play something really well in tempo.

 

[lawjcrg]

I do this, to be sure. Just wanting to see if I need to make some fine adjustments to my right hand technique to help me cross over into the next speed level on this. Seems to be taking a long time to work this up to tempo.

 

[groooooove]

practice slowly w/ a metronome. work on it. it will come with time.

 

[nysbob]

Have you tried it with 3 fingers?

I can't possibly play accurately that fast for more than a bar or two using just 2.

 

[funnyfingers]

Sounds like you can do it at 140 bps, so do this for 8 hours a day and you might get there. If you did that 5 days a week, you probably still won't have played as much as he did in a week.

 

[MrLenny1]

Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Finbase]

Practice, practice, practice.

+1

I'm afraid that there's no shortcut...

EDIT: Although you could check out some Gary Willis bass lesson videos. He's talking about this in quite a many videos.

But nevertheless: unfortunately knowing the theory of playing 16th notes and being actually able to execute them, that's a completely different story. And the story begins: "Once there was a little boy, who practiced like*a maniac..."

 

[dougjwray]

I had a couple of lessons with Jaco, and he basically said three things about this issue:

Relaxation of your plucking hand is very important. His was nearly limp, even when he was playing all of those marathon staccato 16th notes.

He totally relied on the Jazz Bass bridge pickup, and plucked near the bridge when doing his staccato stuff; the higher string tension back there made it more efficient, plus the location of that pickup made the notes "speak" much easier.

His endurance simply came from playing lots and LOTS of gigs.

I'll just add that you can experiment with limiting the distance that your plucking fingers travel. For example (and I believe this is a Billy Sheehan thing), trying bending just the knuckles on your plucking fingers rather than the joints where your fingers are attached to your hands. It's an efficiency thing.
Practice, practice, practice!

 

[LB75]

The best advise I've gotten about this is try to keep your two plucking fingers straighter instead of curved. You may have to lift your forearm some to accomplish this but this uses the larger muscles in you forearm which gives you more stamina and speed.

 

[highway]

Sounds like you can do it at 140 bps, so do this for 8 hours a day and you might get there. If you did that 5 days a week, you probably still won't have played as much as he did in a week.

this. he used to play 8 sets a night, every night . . . chops like no other!

 

[eddiebo]

great technique from Matt Garrison here:

 

[lawjcrg]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I will make sure to be more efficient in more much my fingers move. If I have the time to post some videos of my right hand I will do so with some different hand positions and maybe that will help some of you better diagnose the issue. Thanks again.

 

[Shakin-Slim]

bps?

 

[lawjcrg]

I do appreciate the suggestions to try 3 finger or a combination of thumb other fingers ala Matthew Garrison, but I want to keep it simple and improve my 2 finger only technique.

 

[lawjcrg]

I stand corrected: bpm, not bps. 140 bps would be pretty fast huh?

 

[Lackey]

Don't feel bad for not being as quick as Jaco, and don't stop trying to increase your speed, it will come, but very slowly. Honestly you're probably blazingly fast to the average listener. I used to think I was never fast enough a few years ago, but in hindsight I was pretty bloody fast. Now I realize how slow I've gotten since then, yi..

 

[Roy Vogt]

One of the things that Jaco did was to pick really close to the bridge over the bridge pickup of his Jazz Bass when he was playing faster lines. The strings tend to bounce back quicker and it's a little easier to play more rapidly.
If you haven't checked it out, his DVD is a great resource:

 

[lawjcrg]

Yes, I have the Jaco Modern Electric Bass DVD. It's a goldmine of great information on his technique and overall approach.

I do pick over the bridge pickup and agree that that is the only part of the strings one should play if you want to get fast articulation.

It's funny; sometimes, I can nail these passages at about 160 bpm, but usually only for about 3-4 beats. After that, something funny happens: either the notes get uneven and I lose the tempo or I get a little tense and that's the end of it. So at that point, I dial down the speed to where I can do it and work back up slowly from there. It's really just a matter of finding the right place to hit the strings on the right place on the fingertips. Getting too much meat on the string or digging in too deep to the string or the fingerpads won't cut it. What seems to work is hitting smaller area of the top of the string with just enough fingertip/fingerpad and to make sure I get a little "rebounding" effect when the finger strikes the string below the one I just played. Sorry if all this seems overly analytical; it's just the way I think about this when trying to solve this problem.

 

[InternetAlias]

If you want to play in crazy tempos you might check out some metal bass playing instrumental videos. Those deal with speed, articulation and clarity.