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how to play fast jaco-style repeated 16th notes

#21
lawjcrg said:
Yes, I have the Jaco Modern Electric Bass DVD. It's a goldmine of great information on his technique and overall approach.

I do pick over the bridge pickup and agree that that is the only part of the strings one should play if you want to get fast articulation.

It's funny; sometimes, I can nail these passages at about 160 bpm, but usually only for about 3-4 beats. After that, something funny happens: either the notes get uneven and I lose the tempo or I get a little tense and that's the end of it. So at that point, I dial down the speed to where I can do it and work back up slowly from there. It's really just a matter of finding the right place to hit the strings on the right place on the fingertips. Getting too much meat on the string or digging in too deep to the string or the fingerpads won't cut it. What seems to work is hitting smaller area of the top of the string with just enough fingertip/fingerpad and to make sure I get a little "rebounding" effect when the finger strikes the string below the one I just played. Sorry if all this seems overly analytical; it's just the way I think about this when trying to solve this problem.
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It sounds like you're on the right track. At this point, I believe lots of practice and lots of experience is what you need.

Also (and I'm honestly not trying to be discouraging here), remember that not everyone is born with the same physical abilities. Just as most people wouldn't be able to land fourteen full-power jabs in one second, as Muhammad Ali could (as documented in a LIFE Magazine article in the '60s), most people don't have the coordination and endurance to do what you're trying to do.
 
#22
Thanks again for everyone's help.

Regarding watching metal bassists, I have viewed some of these and find it not helpful. The ones I have seen they have such a light, almost "flicking" like attack on the string which does not produce the solid fatter tone/sound that Jaco produces. Maybe there's a great metal bassist out there I've missed that I could learn from but so far, it doesn't seem helpful to what I'm after. But thanks for the suggestion.

Yes, I realize, at some point, there may just be some physical limitations and at some point I may just "tap out" or max out physically at a certain tempo. Before I get to that point, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything to maximize what I can do within my own physiological structure and limitations. After that, I'll throw in the towel and move on. Just don't think I've quite reached that point yet.
 
#23
Practice every day and play slow like everyone is saying.

Also make sure you know the parts so well that your mind can play as fast as your fingers.

A lot of speed is just knowing the parts incredibly well.
 
#25
One trick I have done to speed up my RH technique is to separate the two fingers. I try to play the same scales, exercises, and songs that I do with both, but I just let one finger drive.

It has really made a difference. Also, playing slower, to a metronome. In fact, learn the part, to a metronome, at 3/4 speed or so.
 
#28
I did do a search for Alex Webster and saw a video of him demonstrating his right hand technique. It is a type of sound that I assume works well for the type of music he does: he has low action and causes the string to slap against the frets while playing to produce a metallic clanky with each articulation. I can see why that sound would be desirable for very loud and dark fast metal bassists, but it's not at all the sound I am after. I am sure, however, that trying some 3 finger technique may even help my 2 finger technique, so I'm not entirely closed minded to the concept. Again, Jaco was amazing with just 2 fingers and had very fat juicy tone on each 16th note. That's what I'm trying to achieve. Thanks again.
 
#29
Actually, you can do a lot with webster's technique, aside from getting a clangy sound. Notice how he doesn't really pick close to the bridge. If you pick lightly closer to the bridge, still utilizing his 'hammering' technique you'd probably get a desirable sound.
 
#30
When I was in school and I had a difficult, fast Horn passage, my teacher would tell me to practice:

Too slow
Slow
Medium
Fast
Too fast

If you can play it well at all of those different speeds, you'll be able to play Jaco's licks.
 
#31
+1 ^

I use 3 fingers, which helps with speed, but I find the main thing to work on is stamina. I know a lot of players who can cop Jaco's style, but only in short bursts. Playing upright bass can help for strength, dropping your action and using lighter strings is another approach (if you don't mind sacrificing a bit of tone), and keeping your wrist straight (not bent) while playing helps to focus the muscles in your forearm which move your fingers.
 
#32
This is a lot like getting the fast Mozart licks on DB. There comes a point where the slow accuracy is there, and you have to make a quantum jump in speed. Use the fact that you can execute two to three beats in tempo before it falls apart, by practicing in bursts followed by rest. Start with five sixteenths beginning on the downbeat, stop on beat two, rest the remainder of the bar. Do this at the desired tempo or a couple clicks faster, nice and relaxed. After a bunch of reps, start on beat two, stopping on beat three, etc.

Continue this approach by stringing together two, then three and four beats of sixteenths together. After some days of this, play the passage in context at a tempo faster than your previous limit. You should notice improvement.
 
#33
I am actually a former double bassist, and went to IU for grad school to study. I'll just have to be patient. One thing that is good for me to remember is to always practice this through an amp. Playing unplugged does not give me an honest sense of my sound/tone that's coming out. I.e., it's a harder to play fast and clean through the amp for sure. Thanks again.
 
#34
lawjcrg said:
It's funny; sometimes, I can nail these passages at about 160 bpm, but usually only for about 3-4 beats. After that, something funny happens: either the notes get uneven and I lose the tempo or I get a little tense and that's the end of it.
Click to expand...

Assuming these are four-beat measures, try playing the four quick 16th notes on just the first beat of each measure, and then play quarter or eighth notes on the other three beats. Once you can play this consistently at tempo for an indefinite number of measures (which you probably can do already), try playing the 16ths on the first two beats, or on the first and third beats, of each measure, using quarters or eighths otherwise. Once you get do this indefinitely, move on to playing 16ths on three out of four beats of each measure. Then, finally, see if you can maintain the 16ths at tempo across all four beats of each measure.
 
#35
A couple other items that helps me somewhat with economy of motion and a better tone at higher speeds:

- use a ramp, or use the pickup face at the bridge PU as a ramp. Plucking over the pickup adjusted to act as a ramp does two things; it ensures a more consistent plucking by stopping your finger at the same place each time and it adds more pop to the notes making them easier to hear. Also, when you do miss a note the noteless pop will be more pronounced still allowing some rhythmic output.

- use a narrower string spacing at the bridge. Eg. my Bunny 6 has 16mm spacing at the bridge which really helps with E of M, especially when crossing strings. The typical 19mm is actually kind of cavernous and you have to move a bit more when crossing strings.

Good players with musical talent don't generally need as much help from the technology as guys like myself (without it) do. But even these can help good players also.

LS
 
#36
Thanks again. Yes, mixing it up rhythmically should help I started messing around with playing each beat with one 1/8 followed by 2 16ths; reversing that (2 16ths followed by an 8th), then 1 16th followed by an 8th followed by a 16th. Sort of like the Galamian rhythmic method for violin ( a great practice book for helping you practice fast passages in different patterns until you get it). Just for the fun of it, I'm going to try learning a 3 finger technique starting with my 3rd finger to middle to index and repeat just to see what that gets me.
 
#39
funnyfingers said:
I don't understand the suggestions to play at a slower speed and 3/4 speed when the OP says he can do all of this at 90% of the speed anyway, 150 BPM...
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A lot of time the culprit is tension, which will slow you down further. Sometimes the culprit is not being settled in how to really play the line and trying to play it too fast too soon. Either way, practicing slowly will allow you to train your mind and hands for what you have to do. I've used this technique for a long time personally and with students.
 
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